Rant about sound guy at gig

[mcknigs]

I'm lucky that most of the sound guys I've worked with over the last few years have been very good. It helps that I've been in bands that do a pretty good job of mixing themselves from the stage. In years past I have gone to shows where the sound guy was more concerned with getting the perfect snare sound than making sure all the vocal mics were up when they needed to be or that soloists were audible.

Closer to the OP's type of problem, I've been bothered by the unhelpfulness of sound guys in the following scenarios:

1. My volume has been perfect through two sets. Near the end of the second set I step on a pedal I haven't used all night and the output is too loud for 5 seconds. Immediately after the song he comes to tell me that I'm way too loud and need to turn down. Not accurate or helpful. I don't expect him to necessarily understand what happened, but I do expect him not to ask for global changes based on 5 seconds out of the entire evening. If he had said "what happened? all of the sudden you were way too loud," that would have been reasonable.

2. I'm playing a soundcheck at a large outdoor amphitheatre. Sixty feet across the stage the bassist asks for some of my amp in his monitor. Suddenly I hear myself blasting out of the far monitor. It's much louder to my ears than my own amp, volume set on 2, seven feet from me. At that moment the FOH guy starts telling me that I need to turn down, that I'm blasting. It took having another member of the sound crew come out and verify that my own amp was actually barely audible, and the bassist agreeing he didn't need any where *near* that much of me in his monitor, before the FOH guy was willing to accept that maybe it wasn't my amp that was blasting.

That's the kind of stuff I could do without.

-Scott

[loudboy]

Originally Posted by mcknigs

I'm lucky that most of the sound guys I've worked with over the last few years have been very good.

It helps that I've been in bands that do a pretty good job of mixing themselves from the stage.

No luck involved. <g>

A band that can play together correctly will usually have a good FOH mix, in almost every circumstance.

If you're consistently being told that someone's too loud, or you're having issues w/almost very soundman, you need to look on your end of the snake.

[The Kid]

If you're too loud, you're not listening. (in the OP's case, it was the other guitarist)

Wireless - yes. Great idea.
If not, have someone else play while you walk out front.

Also:

NEVER point your amp at the sound guy.

[cbguy]

Originally Posted by The Kid

NEVER point your amp at the sound guy.

THIS is why I use an amp stand at many venues. On a medium-to-large stage, especially when you have confidence in the sound engineer and his/her gear, eliminating the speaker directivity, whether it be at the soundman or just a portion of the audience, makes for a better mix throughout the venue.

Get a great stage sound. Don't try to do the sound guy's job. If you've got a sound guy like the OP had that doesn't even recognize which guitar player is playing what, you're sunk anyway, of course. But make sure you're taking care of your business first, not theirs.

[DC1]

Originally Posted by cbguy

THIS is why I use an amp stand at many venues. On a medium-to-large stage, especially when you have confidence in the sound engineer and his/her gear, eliminating the speaker directivity, whether it be at the soundman or just a portion of the audience, makes for a better mix throughout the venue.

Get a great stage sound. Don't try to do the sound guy's job. If you've got a sound guy like the OP had that doesn't even recognize which guitar player is playing what, you're sunk anyway, of course. But make sure you're taking care of your business first, not theirs.

I can't stress enough how important this is. Even if you don't have a wireless, go as far as you can out in front of the stage with all instruments playing and no mains and no monitors. When you can get the band balanced and great sounding on stage without wedges or the mains, you are well on your way to a great show. Oh, and you will see how far off your tone settings are too...



dc

[TDavis]

Originally Posted by goodsal

I played a gig recently where after the first song, the sound guy comes up on stage and whispers to me "dude, you're way too loud, you're drowning everybody out, you need to turn down". I'm happy to get the advice as I want to make sure we're mixed properly.

I just watched the video of our performance, and it was actually the other guitarist who was too loud, so by telling me to turn down he made the mix even worse. For the rest of the show I could barely be heard and he never corrected it in the mix.

I'm really pissed off, because I think I played really well that night.

It appears to me this gentleman was a "soundman in disguise"...I'd try not to use him anymore!

[mcknigs]

Originally Posted by cbguy

THIS is why I use an amp stand at many venues. On a medium-to-large stage, especially when you have confidence in the sound engineer and his/her gear, eliminating the speaker directivity, whether it be at the soundman or just a portion of the audience, makes for a better mix throughout the venue.

Changing the subject somewhat, but, my biggest problem has been that I like to hear myself mixed in with the band. I've gotten far more requests (mostly from band members) to turn up than to turn down, because by the time I'm mixed down into the band for my ears, I'm relatively quiet to everyone else. A solution has been to aim my amp more at the band and audience than myself. The problem there is that I'm then not in the direct throw of my speakers and can't hear the true tone of the amp. I need to figure a solution for that.

Get a great stage sound. Don't try to do the sound guy's job.

Except that, to the extent band members can boost themselves for solos, they'll be making the soundman's job easier and protecting themselves against sound guys who don't boost solos as appropriate.

-Scott

[SteveGaines]

Originally Posted by Johns7022

Did anyone listen to Lucid's clip?

Notice anything?

A bunch of preppy middle age white people having their own version of "SOUL TRAIN".. No, other than the Bass player needed to turn up a little...

[drgonzoguitar]

Originally Posted by Johns7022

Did anyone listen to Lucid's clip?

Notice anything?

People drinking and dancing, keeping the bar happy, and musicians employed.

[Brian D]

Originally Posted by mcknigs

1. My volume has been perfect through two sets. Near the end of the second set I step on a pedal I haven't used all night and the output is too loud for 5 seconds. Immediately after the song he comes to tell me that I'm way too loud and need to turn down. Not accurate or helpful. I don't expect him to necessarily understand what happened, but I do expect him not to ask for global changes based on 5 seconds out of the entire evening.

He should have understood exactly what happened, and ideally he would have taken levels on all of your pedals during the sound check and had a rough idea when you would be using them. But I realize that is a best-case scenario.

[DC1]

Even among pros, there are those who see their job as part of the making of music and want to turn the crowd on, just like the band, while there are others who see it as control, making sure everything is neat and in its place.

As a sound guy, I am one of the former, and I really don't like the latter at all.

This was brought home to me working with a young sound guy recently. He told me to turn my amp down halfway through the first tune in sound check. I told him, and the lead singer, to knock off the micromanagement for at least three song to let the band gel a bit. That helped a lot, and after that I asked him how I was and he liked my level (which was louder than the first level he complained about)

Sooo, recently he mixed another band that our other guitarist plays in, and I was in the crowd. I never heard one note the guitar played for the whole set.



So, it became clear, that not only did he not hear well, but that he does not mix for passion and to move the crowd, but for control and neatness. I stopped listening to his stage direction at that point.

If you can find someone with great skills who mixes with passion and love of music, who features solos, who knows how to make vocals shine, who mixes musically (dammit!), he/she is worth whatever they ask, and yes it will be much more than 10 bucks/an hour.

dc

[SteveGaines]

Originally Posted by Hipster Dofus

Wow.

A bunch of guitar players in $400 cover bands bitching about a $100 "soundman"......

Most of the 'good' guys look at bar gigs as a last resort. Bottom feeder land.

If subs are a soundguys cock, then what the hell is the $4k 100w 1/2 stack in a room for 100 people?

The average $150 soundman is like %90 of this BB. Beginners and wannabes, with toys.

As someone mentioned, in a BAR, the object is to sell beer, and make the owner $. PERIOD. Who gives shit about your tone when peoples ears are bleeding. If you think anything else, you are a fool.

The 'soundmen' in most of these bars are just like the bands... Going NOWHERE!

Sounds like you don't "HAVE" to play clubs anymore,and that's great..But everybody has gotta start somewhere...and plus some of us have full time jobs who gig on the weekend...And you can get great tone without making people's ear's bleed..I have picked with some of the best musicians a man could ever want to step on stage with for 100 bucks a piece... And we wanted "TO SOUND GOOD"..And we did..Cause we all were seasoned enough to know about the key word "DYNAMICS"..I have played many a gig without a sound man where we got a good level from the stage and went with it..But it all goes back to your DRUMMER..If he hasn't got DYNAMICS then the rest of the band can hang it up..Knowing WHEN are WHERE to play is also a big thing that separates the vast majority of guitar players..If you can play like Eddie Van Halen but won't turn down or are playing over the top of everybody..Then it doesn't really matter HOW could you are! I don't give a damn if I'm playing at a jam with my buddies just to have a good time..."I WANT TO SOUND GOOD".. And I usually do..

[Johns7022]

Fixing volume is the easiest thing in the world for a sound guy/band to fix...it's kiddie time when bands can't square away volume issues....

.....a band/sound guy actually working to put out a good product will know how loud they want to sound, square that way, so they can work on the more elusive attributes trying to get closer to pro level sound quality..

These threads will never move forward to deconstructing the tough stuff, as long as sound guys and players are all working towards a personal agenda to do things they want rather then what actually is the best thing to do. It's selfish and unprofessional.

[Flyin' Brian]

Originally Posted by Hipster Dofus

The 'soundmen' in most of these bars are just like the bands... Going NOWHERE!

I'm sure that the bottom feeding, going nowhere bands who have day jobs, play music for the sheer joy of it and don't complain about soundmen have as little regard for your elitist, ascerbic generalities as you seem to have for them.

How's your latest world tour going?

[eschoendorff]

Originally Posted by DC1

Even among pros, there are those who see their job as part of the making of music and want to turn the crowd on, just like the band, while there are others who see it as control, making sure everything is neat and in its place.

As a sound guy, I am one of the former, and I really don't like the latter at all.

This was brought home to me working with a young sound guy recently. He told me to turn my amp down halfway through the first tune in sound check. I told him, and the lead singer, to knock off the micromanagement for at least three song to let the band gel a bit. That helped a lot, and after that I asked him how I was and he liked my level (which was louder than the first level he complained about)

Sooo, recently he mixed another band that our other guitarist plays in, and I was in the crowd. I never heard one note the guitar played for the whole set.



So, it became clear, that not only did he not hear well, but that he does not mix for passion and to move the crowd, but for control and neatness. I stopped listening to his stage direction at that point.

If you can find someone with great skills who mixes with passion and love of music, who features solos, who knows how to make vocals shine, who mixes musically (dammit!), he/she is worth whatever they ask, and yes it will be much more than 10 bucks/an hour.

dc

Someone needs to buy this guy a drink. Best post of 2010.