Amp tone. Takes an hour, gig volume.

[uncle psychosis]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I see Red Label beat me to it - you can still hear a change in tone with earplugs in.

All the people in this thread who are still saying it's just your ears changing are overlooking a point that has been brought up more than once in this thread. People have amps for years. They get to know them. Sometimes they turn an amp on and start playing straight away. Sometimes they turn an amp on, GO AWAY AND DO SOMETHING ELSE, and come back an hour or more later to start playing the amp. In this case if they notice a difference in tone and feel, it's not because their ears have been affected by high volume.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the amp is whats different. Maybe they did something that got their blood pumping harder or relaxed them. Physiological changes can affect your hearing. Maybe they come back *expecting* it to sound different, so it does, at least as far as they're concerned. Maybe they're standing in a different position relative to the amp. Maybe they left a door open when it was closed before and the reverb time of the room is different.

As for the earplugs thing---your ears probably adjust to having them in. I know that when I put mine in I find it hard to hear conversations but after twenty minutes or so I'm barely aware of wearing them. Maybe after an hour of a gig your beer has kicked in, or your adrenaline is pumping, or your bass player is really kickin' it, or the drummer is playing quieter. All of these things could easily affect the perceived tone of an amp.

Look, I'm not saying that amps don't have a warm up time. They *probably* do. But as someone who has a PhD in acoustics I get really annoyed when people say "I did this really uncontrolled test and think that I maybe, possibly, heard this effect, therefore my rather shaky conclusions must be 100% true and anyone who dares disagree is a moron because THEY WEREN'T THERE MAN, THEY WEREN'T THERE....".

What I'd like to do is the following. Get a looper pedal, an amp, a guitar, and a recording setup. Continually loop the guitar through the amp and record the output over several hours, starting from "just switched on". Then I'd do some fun signal processing on the recordings and look for changes over time. Fun!

[teemuk]

...Plus hearing fatigue doesn't neccessarily require any significant levels of loudness. Even with quiet signals your ears and perception will begin to adapt to the overall signal and start to filter out a lot of stuff your brain regards as something that is unneccessary, annoying or plainly "confusing" the message. With time you simply get "accustomed" to a certain tone and what you're hearing at that time is not what you initially heard, though everything - except you perception of the signal - has remained the same. Naturally, taking a break and giving your ears some rest will again shape your perception, closer to what you heard initially. So, changes in tone in longer time frame might not have anything to do with the amp warming up, it's just your hearing adjusting to the tone.

[dilznik]

How hard is it to record an mp3 of a lick played immediately after turning the amp on, two hours after turning the amp on, and the next day after leaving the amp on all night?

Sounds the same? Sounds different?

[somedude]

I think the problem with this debate is that some people are leaning all towards option A and feeling they have to totally discount option B, and others are leaning all towards option B and feeling they have to eliminate option A, when in all likelihood it's a little of both.

A+B=C

The other aspect that no one has really touched on is a difference in experience. A low volume player with his amp's volume barely cracked is probably going to have a different experience than a loud player with his amp volume near the point of failure and the voice coils in his speakers near melting.

[somedude]

Originally Posted by dilznik

How hard is it to record an mp3 of a lick played immediately after turning the amp on, two hours after turning the amp on, and the next day after leaving the amp on all night?

Sounds the same? Sounds different?

It brings us into the realm of, "According to Youtube, via multiple layers of compression and quality degradation, in combination with your poor recording technique and the fact that you used the mic and A/D converter on a $200 point and shoot camera.... there is no difference".

Which brings us into, "Well, I can clearly hear and feel the difference in the room".

Which brings us into, "Well, since Youtube says it's the same, I'm going to believe Youtube over the word of the guy who was standing right there".

[teemuk]

Also, I'd like to add that echoic (aural) memory is extremely short spanning. Relying on that kind of memory when trying to determine if the amp sounds different than, say, an hour ago is extremely unreliable. An average human likely couldn't even remember distinct details of how that amp sounded just a few minutes ago. Overall impression? Yes. An impression detailed enough to tell that things have slightly changed? No way.

[RickNew]

I like the lick on a looper idea, professionally recorded several times over a four or five hour period.
Won't be able to judge the feel of the amp but human emotion and loosening up will be taken out of the equation.

[nullin]

Sure an amp needs to warm up, but an hour? Never had that problem with any of mine. But even if it's true, who has the time to play an amp for an hour before actually "playing" it? Surely people aren't advocating this, are they? I don't have time to wait an hour, say the alphabet backwards, spin around three times and click my heels together. Guess I'll just have to not worry about it and just play music.

I'd like to hear from some amp makers on this one.

[amphog]

Resistance values will definately drift with temp changes, but all amps may not heat up enough for a big difference. Speakers will sound different if they are being used at close to their max power [volume compression]. I used to be common practice to leave studio gear on pretty much from the time it was installed. Top mounted chassies are more prone to change tone because heat rises. Your milage may vary!

[Stu Blue]

Originally Posted by teemuk

Also, I'd like to add that echoic (aural) memory is extremely short spanning. Relying on that kind of memory when trying to determine if the amp sounds different than, say, an hour ago is extremely unreliable. An average human likely couldn't even remember distinct details of how that amp sounded just a few minutes ago. Overall impression? Yes. An impression detailed enough to tell that things have slightly changed? No way.

Got agree with teemuk on this one. There is a huge gulf between what guitarists think they hear and what a high end frequency analysizer sees. Hence all those "owned for two weeks" amps in the for sale section... and all those dreadful sounding bar bands.

Also, in high end studios, they like you to change strings every hour because of tone loss... personally, I "killed" strings by the end of just two 45 minute sets.... some guys here don't seem to "hear" that......

As someone has already said, a well designed/built amp should be very tonally stable after 10-15 minutes... any changes after that ought to be minute compared to "string death" or changes in your touch/feel thru the night... let alone changes in wall voltage.

However i do notice my class A Bivalve is more tonally stable than my old '63 JTM45 (AB1)... but then again I'm bat-eared, unlike you lot.

[ipodjunky]

my 67 BFSR sounds way better about the second set on. I will go from using the heavy pedal to my BD-2. It just seems to get better gain after an hour of playing.

[cteaghin]

I have always aimed at warming up a tube amp at least 15 minutes before playing (first thing on and set up, everything else set up after it starts cooking). half hour is ideal. I have been doing this for as long as I have been playing tube amps. For me, there is a difference in "feel".

This may sound weird, but i think a warmed up tube amp "feels" more settled - much like i feel more settled if I have had time to warm up before playing. I have also noticed that most tube amps break up quicker after cooking for a while. this comes from back to back use in the same place where I have time to let the amp cook for 15 minutes or so, and coming back the next day (same place, etc.) and jumping in without warming up the amp.

Yes, I cannot prove this scientifically. Yes, it may be psychosomatic. However, I will continue to operate in this fashion, because it works for me.

[MBreinin]

This usually coincides directly with my 4th or 5th Vodka on the rocks. Amps really start to sound good then. LOL

[cteaghin]

Originally Posted by MBreinin

This usually coincides directly with my 4th or 5th Vodka on the rocks. Amps really start to sound good then. LOL

A whiskey is part of my warm up routine as well...

[trailrun100s]

Hmmm, I dunno on this one. I've done many a gig where I pull up, unload in a snowstorm, band is already about to start, I plug in cables, turn somewhat cold amp on, and a few minutes later I'm playing(with very cold fingers mind you). My amp, even though quite cold initially, still sounds the same at the end of the first set an hour later. The only thing that makes it sound and feel sweeter is the fact that the volume comes up a bit in the later sets, not to mention the downing of a few beers and a Jager or two

As with anything, YMMV, and everything we know is wrong.