Celestions: Classics vs. Heritage?

[Occam]

What are the differences here and what are the differences in the 3 types of Greenbacks they have (G12M Heritage, G12H Heritage, G12M Classic)?

[TaronKeim]

The G12H is a completely different speaker than the G12M's, it has a much heavier magnet and a much more scooped tone "less mids" than the G12M's do (which are the speakers that people usually associate the term "greenbacks" with). The G12H Heritage is all handmade in England (as opposed to manufactured in China) and has replica bass cones in the frame which have been most people's favorite version of that speaker for over 30 years. This is a much tighter sounding speaker with more bottom end and more top end than the standard "lead" cone G12H that Celestion offers. The G12M and the G12M Heritage are different as well, the standard G12M is also not handmade or manufactured in England and is based on the 25 watt model of the G12M from back in the day. It has a great mid-range and is an extremely chimey speaker with clean sounds and when pushed, gets a very pleasant break up, and pretty much defines rock tone to a "T" when used in a 4x12. As for the G12M Heritage, it is based on the 20 watt model of the Greenback and I am much less familiar with this model but know that it is also completely handmade and manufactured in England. The two Heritage speakers are not considered to be clones, but to be complete replicas of the original speakers.

Short Version:

G12H (standard): has the Lead cone in it so less highs, less bass and a little looser, more overal sag in the sound/dynamics. Made/Manufactured in China.

G12H (heritage): Complete REPLICA of the oldschool G12H pre-rolas. Has the Bass cone in it (as opposed to the lead cone of the current G12H that Celestion offers), so more highs, more bass and a much tighter sound, some people consider certain models to be too bright with some amps, while others love the clarity and punch it offers. Hand Made, Manufactured in England.

G12M (standard): 25 watt re-issue of the original 25 watt Greenback (but doesn't sound quite the same/good) Has lots of midrange content and chime for clean sounds, compresses and gets speaker break up when pushed. Made/Manufactured in China.

G12M (heritage): 20 Watt REPLICA of the original 20 watt Greenback, should sound identical if not better than a Pre-Rola 20 watt G12M. As for sound content, I really am not sure, but could imagine more speaker break-up, less volume and more sweetness to the high end than the 25 watt. Hand Made, Manufactured in England.

Hope this helps.

-TJK

[Matt Gordon]

Great post and info. We're all looking forward to the Heritage's. Make a nice litte addition to an ill 2X12 cabinet of mine.

[thegame]

Originally posted by TaronKeim

Short Version:

G12H (standard): has the Lead cone in it so less highs, less bass and a little looser, more overal sag in the sound/dynamics. Made/Manufactured in China.

G12H (heritage): Complete REPLICA of the oldschool G12H pre-rolas. Has the Bass cone in it (as opposed to the lead cone of the current G12H that Celestion offers), so more highs, more bass and a much tighter sound, some people consider certain models to be too bright with some amps, while others love the clarity and punch it offers. Hand Made, Manufactured in England.


-TJK

So the new Heritage is tighter than the regular G12H30? How much tighter? Tighter enough to make the Heritage better for high gain amps? I would assume a lower resonance 55 hz design would be looser than the 75 hz G12H30.

Your comparison was based on Chinese G12H30s. I have English G12H30s 70th anniversary reissues. Would these be closer to the Heritages?

Thanks

[big mike]

I'm going with the scumbacks.

He sent me a proto and an original, and they sound damn near identical. Made in america, and more reasonable pricing.

[TaronKeim]

Originally posted by thegame
So the new Heritage is tighter than the regular G12H30? How much tighter? Tighter enough to make the Heritage better for high gain amps? I would assume a lower resonance 55 hz design would be looser than the 75 hz G12H30.

Your comparison was based on Chinese G12H30s. I have English G12H30s 70th anniversary reissues. Would these be closer to the Heritages?

Thanks

I can't answer that question in depth as I haven't tried the G12H30 Anniverseries, but I have a cabinet with Blackback G12H30's with the Bass cones and they are far more tight sounding than the current production Lead cones for the G12H30s, the Bass cone is a far stiffer cone than the Lead cone and that is why it has much tighter bass and a more articulate high-end. If your Anniverseries are built with the bass cones, I'm assuming you'd only hear a difference in sound quality with the Heritage speakers, although the Heritage speakers have the most sought out bass cone out of all the G12H30's so there might be a bigger difference in response as well.

I've heard an XTC through a cab with Pre-Rola G12H30's with the Bass cones and loved the tone of it, but considering how dark the XTC is, it didn't cause an shrill high-end and definately added some tight, punchy low-end. Hope this helps.

-TJK

[Matt Gordon]

I have too much treble as it is! I'm sticking to the G12M's! Come on Celestion, let's get the goods over here!

[thegame]

Originally posted by TaronKeim
I can't answer that question in depth as I haven't tried the G12H30 Anniverseries, but I have a cabinet with Blackback G12H30's with the Bass cones and they are far more tight sounding than the current production Lead cones for the G12H30s, the Bass cone is a far stiffer cone than the Lead cone and that is why it has much tighter bass and a more articulate high-end. If your Anniverseries are built with the bass cones, I'm assuming you'd only hear a difference in sound quality with the Heritage speakers, although the Heritage speakers have the most sought out bass cone out of all the G12H30's so there might be a bigger difference in response as well.

I've heard an XTC through a cab with Pre-Rola G12H30's with the Bass cones and loved the tone of it, but considering how dark the XTC is, it didn't cause an shrill high-end and definately added some tight, punchy low-end. Hope this helps.

-TJK

OK, thanks. From your post, am I right in gathering that G12H30 70th anniversaries are different than "regular" G12H30 reissues? Basically, is there more than one G12H30s reissue? (excluding the Heritage of course).

One more question: You mentioned the Heritage having alot more bass and treble than the G12H30s. Does that make it more scooped? Or are there still nice mids to be had? My G12H30s (75 hz) are a bit scooped sounding to me, in a good way though.

[Occam]

I'm embracing this thing known as treble. I've long been a user of baritones and a lover of darker tones but lately I've had a jones for using my Tele more and embracing it's bright nature rather than fighting it. I have an empty Marshall 4x12 and I've been thinking about getting some greenback's for it...I still think I'd like just a tad more low end...nothing huge but just a little chunkier. Is there a slight beefier greenback out there...I still want the signature mid's and some sharp but not too harsh high end?

[tonedaddy]

Originally posted by thegame
OK, thanks. From your post, am I right in gathering that G12H30 70th anniversaries are different than "regular" G12H30 reissues? Basically, is there more than one G12H30s reissue? (excluding the Heritage of course).

Perhaps TaronKeim may jump back in, but until then, I'll try to help.

Celestion currently only makes 2 G12H speakers, the G12H30 70th Anniversary and the Heritage Series G12H:

70th Anniversary Special Edition G12H:
http://professional.celestion.com/gu...etail.asp?ID=7

Heritage Series G12H:
http://professional.celestion.com/gu...etail.asp?ID=7

[TaronKeim]

Originally posted by tonedaddy
Perhaps TaronKeim may jump back in, but until then, I'll try to help.

Celestion currently only makes 2 G12H speakers, the G12H30 70th Anniversary and the Heritage Series G12H:

70th Anniversary Special Edition G12H:
http://professional.celestion.com/gu...etail.asp?ID=7

Heritage Series G12H:
http://professional.celestion.com/gu...etail.asp?ID=7

Sorry about that fellas, had a busy day

The Anniversery Edition has the "Lead" cone in it, which is a less "stiff" cone, therefore has a more open sound and looser bottom end.

The Heritage will definately sound more scooped.

Hope this helps, I'm not actually a speaker expert, but those happen to be the only two speakers I've ever done testing with, and they are my favorites

And I'm not sure as to if the Anniversery G12H's are the ONLY re-issue Celestion has ever made, I swore they had a standard re-issue much like the G12M does... wish I could help more. However, if all they have ever made is the Anniversery, then it will definately be the "Lead" cone in the basket

-TJK

[spikeRI]

+1 for Scumbacks. Just recieved a 55hz G12M (actually a recone to scumbag specs) and now I believe the hype about Hendrix using 55hz Greenbacks........huge clean sound

[LSchefman]

I dunno about the "handmade" thing for English v Chinese.

They have stamped metal frames. That's done by giant metal stamping machines. The magnets appear to be made of stamped and machined parts.I doubt that there is more than hand assembly of those things they can't do with a machine. Hand assembly is different from "handmade."

I'm guessing that the very same hand assembly is also done in the Chinese factories, which is why they're in China in the first place: the labor is cheaper. Chinese people have hands, and they're assembling, just like in England.

If it could be done by machine, it wouldn't really matter where the machine was located. They wouldn't NEED to have anything done in China.

I'm guessing that the quality control and assembly may be to a higher standard with the British-made product, and I'd prefer to buy goods from Britain or the US anyway.