NOS Tubes for a new Vox AC15, worth the cash?

[DenverDrew]

Hello again everyone!

I am placing my order today for a brand new Vox AC15C1 combo after spending some serious time in an amp room with it and the AC30C2. The 30 just didn't have the same feel as the 15, though arguably it was the specific 30 I tried because one of the preamp tubes sounded like it was going out. Nevertheless, I was thinking if I picked up the AC15 maybe I could afford to spend a little extra on some nice NOS tubes.

I am a complete noob when it comes to tubes so please be patient with me. My best friend and fellow guitar player swears by the NOS tubes so I am taking notice. I have never dove into the world of tubes before and I am sort of sketched out by tubes that out-date me by another quarter of a century. That is why I turn to my wiser and more knowledgeable friends here at TGP.

My questions are:
1. would NOS tubes sound good in this amp (some amps aren't voiced for NOS is my understanding so far)
2. Which tubes to change out for NOS (preamp, power, all, and why?)
3. Which NOS tubes do you recommend (personal experience a plus)
4. Would I get a bigger NOS benefit out of the AC15 or my Richter 5e3 Supra-Luxe?

Lastly the big one IS IT WORTH IT? I know this is subjective for everyone because it's based on taste, but taking the cost of this change vs the benefit in sound. Will I hear the $xxx dollar difference? I have no issue spending the money, but not if tonally it is going to sound very close to the stock tubes.

Thanks everyone!

[lgehrig4]

Definitely. I have a AC15 C1 and it greatly improved the tone and I thought it sounded very good to start with. The amps tone got creamier and more harmonically rich. I have a Brimar in V1 and Ratheon in V2. I forgot the brand of el84s, but they are NOS. Not great ones, but I had them already.

So definitely worth it!

[teleman1]

If I was going to delve into NOS, I'd start with one tube. It would be a used 12ax7 of Mullard or Amperex fame. There's reputable TGP'rs that might help you acquire one. Used the price could be $25-$35.

1. would NOS tubes sound good in this amp (some amps aren't voiced for NOS is my understanding so far) Cocknbull statement. Some amps like RCA as opposed to Mullard or Telefunkens.

4. Would I get a bigger NOS benefit out of the AC15 or my Richter 5e3 Supra-Luxe? Every case I have been exposed to with NOS, the amp sounds better. Power tubes are very expensive, so I recommend going current production. But as I said a 12ax7 in the v1 slot should turn your ear.
Remember there are folks who claim they can't hear the difference. There are also folks who use a light grade of sandpaper instead of Chiffon. I'm sensitive, I like Chiffon.

And I just saw you have a Nash which means you probably have good ears NOS tube to current day productions is like a Nash compared to a perfectly set up Made in Korea Tele. Nice, plays nice, not terrible through the amp, but it isn't no American Tele and it ain't no Nash

[DenverDrew]

Originally Posted by teleman1

If I was going to delve into NOS, I'd start with one tube. It would be a used 12ax7 of Mullard or Amperex fame. There's reputable TGP'rs that might help you acquire one. Used the price could be $25-$35.

1. would NOS tubes sound good in this amp (some amps aren't voiced for NOS is my understanding so far) Cocknbull statement. Some amps like RCA as opposed to Mullard or Telefunkens.

4. Would I get a bigger NOS benefit out of the AC15 or my Richter 5e3 Supra-Luxe? Every case I have been exposed to with NOS, the amp sounds better. Power tubes are very expensive, so I recommend going current production. But as I said a 12ax7 in the v1 slot should turn your ear.
Remember there are folks who claim they can't hear the difference. There are also folks who use a light grade of sandpaper instead of Chiffon. I'm sensitive, I like Chiffon.

And I just saw you have a Nash which means you probably have good ears NOS tube to current day productions is like a Nash compared to a perfectly set up Made in Korea Tele. Nice, plays nice, not terrible through the amp, but it isn't no American Tele and it ain't no Nash

Yeah I am definitely one who can hear the difference and I certainly prefer the Chiffon. It's like a color pallet and I want a different shade, which explains why I am a complete gear nerd.

[FenderBigot]

Let me tell you this from first hand experience... ANY tube upgrades be them NOS or something new from JJ will be a huge improvement on the cheap glass the ships with the C1. I put in all new preamp JJ's in mine and it just opened up the sound of the amp overall. Maybe try with some lesser cost tubes before dumping extra money into NOS.

[MVrider]

A few points...

Tubes do vary and to complicate it further, we all hear differently. Some listeners can hear extremely subtle differences, some can only hear gross differences. Others...

Not many have actually HEARD an A/B comparision of stock tubes vs upgrades vs NOS tubes in that particular model of amp. That won't keep them from offering opinions.

The original VOXes were optimized for Mullard EL84's - an extremely high-quality and extremely musical sounding tube which was in good supply back then. To give you an idea of just how highly that tube is regarded, it is still used in hi-fi applications by high-end audio builders. Other tubes highly regarded for guitar amplification such as 6L6's or EL-34's aren't used in high-end audio circuitry today like the NOS EL-84's

Fans of the original VOXes (I've never played with one long enough to draw any conclusions) say the Mullard is THE tube to have in that amp. Not surprising given the design provenance of the amp. I can't guess how a modern clone would respond. On one hand they are said to be close to the originals. On the other, they probably weren't optimized for a tube that for all intents and purposes can't be found. Given how well the other VOX-derived amps do with the NOS stuff, I'd guess they'd do every bit as well in the new clone as they do in all the rest.

Bottom line: What works for you works for you. So for better or worse, you won't know until you try.

[Eminor7]

Originally Posted by teleman1

1. would NOS tubes sound good in this amp (some amps aren't voiced for NOS is my understanding so far) Cocknbull statement. Some amps like RCA as opposed to Mullard or Telefunkens.

That's not a "cock-and-bull" statement. I have voiced every amp that I have built to sound best with a specific current production tube. It's not that these amps do not sound good with NOS tubes. It's that I would never build an amp that required NOS tubes to sound its best.

In my humble, at this point, NOS tubes, like carbon comp resisters, and magic formula caps are snake oil meant to separate unknowledgeable buyers from their money. A good amp design can be made to sound great with current production tubes, bobbin-based iron, metal film resistors, and Xicon poly caps. NOS had a leg up on current production tubes a decade ago because most of the early tubes that were imported to the West from Russia and other former Soviet Bloc countries were close approximations to Western tube designs. For example, the original Sovtek 5881 is not a real 5881. It is a Soviet-era bomber servo tube that just happens to work well in 5881/6L6 circuits. This tube's Soviet designator is 6P3S-EV. The early Sovtek 12AX7s were little more than re-pinned 6N2P-EVs. The first Sovtek 6V6 was not a real 6V6. It was a Soviet tube with the designator 6P6S.

If one examines the internal structure of many of the current production tubes, one finds that they are very close, if not spot on in, construction to NOS. The big difference between current production and NOS tubes lies in selection. A larger percentage of the tubes made in Western plants never left the factory. However, the difference in quality control is rapidly becoming a moot point because most of the best NOS examples have been sold.

[DenverDrew]

Originally Posted by Eminor7

If one examines the internal structure of many of the current production tubes, one finds that they are very close, if not spot on, in construction to NOS. The big difference between current production and NOS tubes lies in selection. A larger percentage of the tubes made in Western plants never left the factory. However, the difference in quality control is rapidly becoming a moot point because most of the best NOS examples have been sold.

Which brand of current production tubes would you recommend as a NOS quality replacement at a lower price?

[Eminor7]

Originally Posted by DenverDrew

Which brand of current production tubes would you recommend as a NOS quality replacement at a lower price?

What amp are you using? What NOS tubes are you using? What style of music do you play?

[IRG]

This thread is relevant to my interests, also for a Vox AC15c1.

[frquent flyer]

One point;NOS tubes are said to have a much longer life generally than new production tubes so that any that you buy could be put in a future amp. They are a good investment.Just be sure to save your old still good tubes.

[DenverDrew]

Originally Posted by Eminor7

What amp are you using? What NOS tubes are you using? What style of music do you play?

Using a brand new Vox AC15 and a Richter Supra-Luxe 5E3. Play rock, blues, and some heavier stuff.

[Rocknhorse1]

I have a Mullard 12AX7 in my V1, an Amperex 12AX7 in V2, and I also have a set of 50's Amperex EL84's in the amp. Not a Vox, it's a custom built 18 watt version of a modded JTM45. These tubes completely blow away what came with the amp, and the amp was not designed around NOS tubes. Really, blew them out of the watter. I also have a set of Blackburn Mullard EL84's that are very nice, but not as nice as the Amperex EL84's. Mind you, these tubes ar very expensive, and are becoming harder to come by, especially REAL NOS.

[andycaster]

Not to hijack the thread... But aren't there any companies that manufacture good tubes - as good as NOS - these days? The market must be there, and the manufacturing can't be that hard?

[atson67]

I think the stock tubes are pretty good.
Changed them with a new set of TAD's and the amp sounded worse.
Put the old tubes back in and they gonna stay there.