Gretsch Volume Controls

[bicktrav]

Hey everyone,

I'm having a bit of trouble with the volume controls on my new Gretsch Power Jet. Whenever I have the master turned all the way up, I start getting feedback, but turning it down causes the guitar to get muffled and muddy VERY fast. I was under the impression that the master volume control allows you to lower the volume on your guitar without losing tone, while the individual pickup volumes cause a more discernible drop in tone when lowered, but my guitar doesn't seem to be working like that. In fact, the master volume control seems to have pretty much the same effect as the individual pickup volume controls.

Can anyone tell me how best to use the volume controls? What's the purpose of the master volume vs. the pickup volume controls? I really like the tone and clarity when the master and pickup controls are dimed, but I don't like it as much when I drop the volume and it get muffled. Is there any solution to this? If not, is there any way to dime the master/pickup controls without getting feedback?

[JimmyR]

Check out TV Jones.com. He has a simple cap/resistor combo that you can put across the live lugs of a vol pot to reduce the tonal affects of turning down. Or you can just buy them from Tandy or whatever. In stock form no you shouldn't really hear any difference between the master vol and the individuals. In fact I usually disconnect the individual volumes on my Gretsches.

[chequepoint]

Originally Posted by bicktrav

Hey everyone,

I'm having a bit of trouble with the volume controls on my new Gretsch Power Jet. Whenever I have the master turned all the way up, I start getting feedback, but turning it down causes the guitar to get muffled and muddy VERY fast. I was under the impression that the master volume control allows you to lower the volume on your guitar without losing tone, while the individual pickup volumes cause a more discernible drop in tone when lowered, but my guitar doesn't seem to be working like that. In fact, the master volume control seems to have pretty much the same effect as the individual pickup volume controls.

Can anyone tell me how best to use the volume controls? What's the purpose of the master volume vs. the pickup volume controls? I really like the tone and clarity when the master and pickup controls are dimed, but I don't like it as much when I drop the volume and it get muffled. Is there any solution to this? If not, is there any way to dime the master/pickup controls without getting feedback?

You shouldn't be getting feedback like that with that guitar. What kind of feedback? Sounds like maybe your pickups are microphonic? I can crank my power jet and not get any undesirable feedback.

The volume knobs just sort of work like that, you can treble bleed the master and use the pickup ones as sort of tone knobs.

[bicktrav]

Forgive me for sounding novice here, but what do you mean when you say the pickups might be microphonic? I've heard people say the same about amp tubes and have never quite known what it meant.

The feedback is like a high pitched whistle. It happens when the volume knobs are cranked, and is particularly pronounced when I'm running my overdrive, or a boost of any sort (particularly treble boosts). But I've also tried it through amps other than my own, but have not gotten feedback in the same way. Still, the volume on those amps may not have been as high as the volume on mine when I got the feedback, so o don't know that it was a fitting comparison. Do you think it could be the amp?

I was also wondering whether it may have to do with the Powertron pickups because they have such high output. What do you think?

By the way, I'm definitely going to look into the treble bleed. Thanks for the rec!

[chequepoint]

Powertrons have less output than most full size humbuckers, it's not that. They're microphonic. That means that essentially something is vibrating in the pickup that shouldn't be at high volumes, making that high pitched squeal. It probably needs to be wax potted again.

[Elias Graves]

I don't know about the feedback issue, but a pot is a pot is a pot. When you turn it down, tone is affected.
My Epi has a Gretsch style wiring scheme and I'm constantly torn between love and hate. It does some really cool things, but that extra volume pot can be hard to work with sometimes.

I wonder if Gretsch uses the high pass filter tone switches to eliminate one of the pots in the chain to minimise this effect? You are running your signal through three pots all the time. Master, volume and tone. There's definitely some high end lost in that mix.

EG

[GAD]

Originally Posted by bicktrav

Forgive me for sounding novice here, but what do you mean when you say the pickups might be microphonic? I've heard people say the same about amp tubes and have never quite known what it meant.

The feedback is like a high pitched whistle. It happens when the volume knobs are cranked, and is particularly pronounced when I'm running my overdrive, or a boost of any sort (particularly treble boosts). But I've also tried it through amps other than my own, but have not gotten feedback in the same way. Still, the volume on those amps may not have been as high as the volume on mine when I got the feedback, so o don't know that it was a fitting comparison. Do you think it could be the amp?

I was also wondering whether it may have to do with the Powertron pickups because they have such high output. What do you think?

By the way, I'm definitely going to look into the treble bleed. Thanks for the rec!

Microphonic means "acts like a microphone". If you touch it, it makes noise. They vibrate and make all sorts of terrible sounds.

If your pickup has this problem, then it's probably "squealing" more than making feedback. Feedback is the sound when you put the guitar up to the speaker - it's an organic sound, and can be used to help notes sustain.

Squealing is a terrible shrill sound that doesn't help anything. If this is your problem, either you need to have the pickups wax-potted or replaced.

[bicktrav]

Yeah, it definitely sounds like I'm dealing with a microphonic issue. The noise is very much a squeal as opposed to the more organic sound you get when you hold the guitar up to the speaker of an amp. And like I said, the squeal gets far far worse whenever I engage a pedal that boosts the signal, especially a treble boost.

The thing that's really frustrating is that this guitar was purchased in late December; it's not even two months old. It really doesn't seem like I should I have to replace the pickups at this stage in the game. They are TV Jones pickups, so they should be high quality. Is there any way to check the pickups to be sure they are microphonic before I swap them out? Should I bring it to a tech? What do you think?

By the way, GAD, I like your blog. Good stuff!

[Waxhead]

Originally Posted by bicktrav

Yeah, it definitely sounds like I'm dealing with a microphonic issue. The noise is very much a squeal as opposed to the more organic sound you get when you hold the guitar up to the speaker of an amp. And like I said, the squeal gets far far worse whenever I engage a pedal that boosts the signal, especially a treble boost.

The thing that's really frustrating is that this guitar was purchased in late December; it's not even two months old. It really doesn't seem like I should I have to replace the pickups at this stage in the game. They are TV Jones pickups, so they should be high quality. Is there any way to check the pickups to be sure they are microphonic before I swap them out? Should I bring it to a tech? What do you think?

By the way, GAD, I like your blog. Good stuff!

You got a faulty guitar
Take it to a tech for repair

[David Collins]

Your feedback and volume control problems are entirely separate issues. It certainly sounds as though your pickups are microphonic, which could likely be remedied quite well by having them potted.

As to the volume controls, of course the independent controls will muddy up the tone as you turn them down, and there's not really much that can be done about this. Even with treble bleed circuits on them, they are still increasing the load on the coils as you turn them down, so they're going to darken up no matter what you do.

The master volume however, if wired properly should not exhibit this problem to nearly so strong a degree. If you switch to one pickup on, and turning down the master volume (with the dedicated volume at 10) indeed darkens the tone just as much as turning down the dedicated volume with the master at 10, then I may suspect that the master is wired incorrectly. If on the other hand it does darken the tone somewhat, but not quite as much as the dedicated volume, then this could likely be remedied with the addition of a treble bleed circuit.

[GAD]

Originally Posted by bicktrav

Yeah, it definitely sounds like I'm dealing with a microphonic issue. The noise is very much a squeal as opposed to the more organic sound you get when you hold the guitar up to the speaker of an amp. And like I said, the squeal gets far far worse whenever I engage a pedal that boosts the signal, especially a treble boost.

The thing that's really frustrating is that this guitar was purchased in late December; it's not even two months old. It really doesn't seem like I should I have to replace the pickups at this stage in the game. They are TV Jones pickups, so they should be high quality. Is there any way to check the pickups to be sure they are microphonic before I swap them out? Should I bring it to a tech? What do you think?

By the way, GAD, I like your blog. Good stuff!

Hey thanks! I've been remiss in updating it of late - got a book deadline.

If the guitar is having these issues and it's that new, it needs work. Hopefully it's under warranty. If not, take it to a tech as it needs some help.

[chequepoint]

Originally Posted by bicktrav

Yeah, it definitely sounds like I'm dealing with a microphonic issue. The noise is very much a squeal as opposed to the more organic sound you get when you hold the guitar up to the speaker of an amp. And like I said, the squeal gets far far worse whenever I engage a pedal that boosts the signal, especially a treble boost.

The thing that's really frustrating is that this guitar was purchased in late December; it's not even two months old. It really doesn't seem like I should I have to replace the pickups at this stage in the game. They are TV Jones pickups, so they should be high quality. Is there any way to check the pickups to be sure they are microphonic before I swap them out? Should I bring it to a tech? What do you think?

By the way, GAD, I like your blog. Good stuff!

They don't need swapped out, they need repotted. If its under warranty contact gretsch for warranty work, or Tom Jones is a pretty nice guy.. I'd write him and see what he thinks. He may be able to repot them for you.