At what point is someone being 'ripped off'?

[Travst]

There seems to be a lot of ill will here that's directed at people who are 'ripping people off'. Take a look at the American Pickers thread and many others. A lot of what I've read provokes no such reaction in me, because I see no reason not to take profits and I understand the expenses associated with running a business, since I've owned one. However, I do draw a line between fair profit and cheating others. I couldn't buy the fabled burst from the little old lady whose husband died and left it in the closet for $100, for instance. I'd have to help her out in selling it instead. But, I look for deals and try to make a little profit when I can.

I'm curious - at what point (profit percentage, etc.) is someone being ripped off? I realize it's hard to define exactly, but take a stab at it.

[Ruraltom]

I dunno.... short of subterfuge, like selling a known fake as something it isn't or your example of cheating someone by buying it for VASTLY less than it's -unknown to them-value, everything's fair game in my book.

Then on the other hand I've bought a couple things over the years that were super-fantastic deals... stolen? stupid? I dunno.... they say one is born every minute, whose fault is that?

[Amp360]

when tgp decides you make enough that you don't deserve any right to get a deal then you're a heartless demon for trying to save a few bucks - and you're dishonest.

[pickaguitar]

Rip off? Selling your gibson, fender, etc more than 65% of the new price (unless it's vintage or a collectable of course).
It's used and has depreciated just like a car. If in good shape...just over half the new price would be fair

[RhytmEarl]

Ok, here's a good example for discussion.

I bought a 1965 Jazz Bass, candy apple red, with matching headstock and original case, in VERY used but not abused condition, all original, for $350.

The seller was a music store. The owner of the store was the original owner of the bass and was selling it because he had had a stroke and was no longer playing.

Did I get a steal? Yes. Did I steal it? I think "no".

[Jube2550]

I rip myself off when I sell gear since I am not in the business of profiteering. What gets me is when the buyer lowballs even further than my altruistic selling price.

[tiktok]

I ask people how much they want for something. If it's worth that to me, I buy it. \

If I know of a guy who's been looking for that exactly color or model and would be willing to pay more, I'm under no obligation to let either party know of the other's existence.

If someone asks me where they can get the best price for something, I tell them, even if that puts it out of my reach. I buy stuff to enjoy it, not to flip it for profit.

[Guitar Josh]

There are two schools of thought:

1) Morality - It's wrong to take advantage of a situation where you have the distinct upper hand.

2) Lack of Personalty - It's not wrong to pay someone what they are asking, even if what they are asking is objectively insufficient.

I again refer the board to the story of a good friend who helped an old secretary at his mother's work while home from break. She said that if he cleaned her attic, he could have the "old guitar" that was somewhere in it. Apparently, her husband/son bought the thing about two weeks before they were called to war and never played the thing again.

What he found was an older Gibson in very nearly new condition. Realizing that he shouldn't take a small fortune for $100 in work, he instead helped her to sell it.

His reward? A trip to the guitar store and his pick of the liter. At that point, he had no problem picking out one of the most expensive, a LPC in white he still has and loves.

Apply the two tests above and come to your own conclusion. I think he did what was right, but the real question is - what's the limit? What if the guitar was only an American Standard Strat in new condition? Do you keep it?

We can play ethics all day long and come out six ways from Sunday.

The only true answer is whatever you can fall asleep to at the end of the day.

[rbnum1fan]

There is no excuse for not knowing the value of your items.a few clicks of the mouse and the information you seek will be found. I recently bought the medals of a WW2 vet whose family were selling them. the grandson had inherited them and in so many words said they were 'junk taking up space' . Becasue he had no respect or value for these medals or the memory of his grandfather i offered him a great deal less than the actual monetary value. we both left the deal happy. did i rip him off? i think not

[Guitar Josh]

Originally Posted by rbnum1fan

There is no excuse for not knowing the value of your items.a few clicks of the mouse and the information you seek will be found. I recently bought the medals of a WW2 vet whose family were selling them. the grandson had inherited them and in so many words said they were 'junk taking up space' . Becasue he had no respect or value for these medals or the memory of his grandfather i offered him a great deal less than the actual monetary value. we both left the deal happy. did i rip him off? i think not

I think you can make a pretty good argument that you helped him rip off the rest of his family.

It's a cop out to say that there is "no excuse." It's unreasonable to expect older persons to have any real knowledge of how to research via the internet. Our generation takes that stuff for granted.

[Julia343]

Originally Posted by pickaguitar

Rip off? Selling your gibson, fender, etc more than 65% of the new price (unless it's vintage or a collectable of course).
It's used and has depreciated just like a car. If in good shape...just over half the new price would be fair

Ooops. I ripped someone off. I sold a Peavey amp at 73% new. It was neither a collectable or vintage. It was in mint condition. I advertised it at $____ or best offer. I got the asking price I never thought I'd get. OMG!! I'm supposed to say

Vendor: No, no, no, come on, do it properly!
Brian: What?
Vendor: Haggle properly, this isn't worth nineteen!
Brian: Well, you just said it was worth twenty!
Vendor: Oh dear, oh dear. Come on: haggle!
Brian: Uh, all right, I'll give you ten.
Vendor: That's more like it! Ten? Are you trying to insult
me? Me, with a poor dying grandmother? Ten!?
Brian: All right, I'll give you eleven!
Vendor: Now you're getting it. Eleven!? Did I hear you
right? Eleven? This cost me twelve, you want to ruin me?
Brian: Seventeen?
Vendor: No, no, no, no, "seventeen"!
Brian: Eighteen?
Vendor: No, no, no, you've got to fourteen now.
Brian: All right, I'll give you fourteen.
Vendor: Fourteen!? Are you joking?
Brian: That's what you told me to say!
Vendor: Oh, dear...
Brian: Oh, tell me what to say, please!
Vendor: Offer me fourteen.
Brian: I'll give you fourteen.
Vendor: He's offering me fourteen for this!
Brian: Fifteen!
Vendor: Seventeen. My last word, I won't take a penny less,
or strike me dead.
Brian: Sixteen!
Vendor: Done! Nice to do business with you.

[pickaguitar]

Well there ya go...some exclusions exist
Good for you Julia!

[EricPeterson]

I am generally in the camp of Seller offers item for sale at X price, if I am willing to pay X price I buy it. Now if there is a serious difference in information, like the little old lady described above I would feel differently, but for 95% of transactions if someone is willing to sell it and I am willing to buy it, I see no issue.

[Ruraltom]

Originally Posted by Guitar Josh

I think you can make a pretty good argument that you helped him rip off the rest of his family.

Really? He inherited them, they were his to do with as he pleased. Whether that was because no one else cared or knew their 'value' or the grandfather wanted HIM to have them.

Originally Posted by Guitar Josh

It's a cop out to say that there is "no excuse." It's unreasonable to expect older persons to have any real knowledge of how to research via the internet. Our generation takes that stuff for granted.

Well, it was the grandson's choice to make and he prolly could have found the value if he was so inclined.

[Amp360]

why would someone want medals that were not theirs or a family members?