Getting Started on Live Sound for My Son's Band - What Do I Need?

[frankandstephen]

Hello all!

I'm a neophyte when it comes to live sound equipment and I was wondering if you could help me with this situation.

My son has a band (they play alternative covers and a few of their originals) that plays indoors on occasion and outdoors for no more than 200 people.

I want to get him the necessary equipment so we don't have to rent as we have in the past and I was wondering what we need to get started.

I've already purchased a Mackie CVX20 mixer ($200) and a livewire 16 channel 100 foot snake ($100) via Craigslist - both were in immaculate shape. (hopefully these were good purchases) so I'm comfortable buying solid, good used equipment.

I'm wanting some solid powered speakers and wondering what else I need to complete the setup. I've looked at QSC and JBL's but not sure which to go with.

He's planning to mic the drums and vocals (one singer) and possibly the bass and guitar amps (although we've considered not doing so too but don't know what's the best approach - he has a Matchless DC30 amp, and a Fender Deville and Fender Twin Reverb and his Bass Amp is a Fender Rumble 350 - yes, I know it's not the best but a start). He already has a number of microphones (Shure 58's and 57's) and stands and mic cables.

I'm looking to spend about $3000 total.

So....please tell me what else I'll need - a list would be great and much, much appreciated!

I apologize if this is a redundant post - I'm new to this forum too!

Best wishes,

Frank

[GCDEF]

Subs, mains, amps, monitors, cables, mics, stands, crossover, eqs. Kind of a tall order for $3,000. Keep watching Craigslist.

Micing everything is essential IMHO. You'll find some people that disagree, but they're wrong.

[sixstringslut]

Look into the new QSC's, someone told me had lifetime warantee, not sure if that's true. Worth looking into because they sound pretty good. Yorkville Elite is good also if you can find them.
BTW by going powered...you are going to need a van or trailor, whereas, non-powered it's an extra amp but one person can handle each unit safely.

Don't ever be talked into buying Sonic Maximizer of any sort you will be OK. If salesman even mentions one... walk.

They are $20 used for a reason.

[GCDEF]

Originally Posted by sixstringslut

BTW by going powered...you are going to need a van or trailor, whereas, non-powered it's an extra amp but one person can handle each unit safely.

I'm not following that at all.

[loudboy]

I'd continue to look for used stuff, and I'd go passive, as you'll get a lot more bang for the buck.

I'd go for 12"/HF horns over a pair of single-18" subs for FOH.

Older JBL SR Series are killer, and really cheap used.

Get 2-3 Yamaha Club Series 12" floor wedges.

Stereo 31-band EQ.

Lexicon FX.

QSC RMX or PLX amps.

Doable for $3K, if you're smart.

[frankandstephen]

so, even if I decide to go with powered speakers I still need power amps ?(told you I was a neophyte about this!) Do I need equalizers, anything else in terms of rack hardware too?

Then my setup is mixer to snake to amps to speakers? And mics to snake? And powered monitors to snake?

I've seen some pretty rudimentary setups with not too much in terms of hardware...

any websites/web resources you suggest I'll definitely appreciate it!

[cruisemates]

No - they are suggesting you get non-powered speakers, and I agree. They are easier to handle and you get more sound power for the money.

I am not sure you needed the snake unless you also plan to have a soundman for the band running a mixer from somewhere in the audience. You DO need mic cables, though.

Honestly, I would buy an "Idiot's Guide" if I were you. You are never going to get everything you need to know in a message board.

Basically, you have a mixer, I assume with 20 inputs. Buy mic cables for every mic and spares. Also mic stands.

I do nto agree you have to mic everythig, especially in smaller venues, but if you CAN it is the better way to go. But the band has to want that also, which means they have to agree to turn down (not always easy for a young band).

So you have the mics and the mixer - Now you need to focus on the speaker section. Most people buy a 19" rack where they can install a crossover (separates the sound coming off the mixer into lows, mids and highs). From the crossover you need three amps;

1. High (usually a smaller wattage amp) to drive the horns
2. Mids - a medium powered amp to drive the mids, which are usually passive speaker cabs with medium size speakers (10 or 12-inch)
3. Lows - a heavy wattage amp to drive the woofers - usually 15" speakers in scooped or ported cabinets

This speaker assembly above (call it a tower) is usually in duplicate, one tower on each side of the stage. You can choose to run a PA in stereo, as most amps are stereo, but you get more power running it in mono.

And this is why you need a book - you now have to learn about matching power amps to speakers, ohms, bridging amps, etc. It is not just a matter of connecting things together.

Now - (important) you can decide to go smaller and put all your money into a nice P.A. that will mic just the vocals. The setup is similar except the speaker assembly is smaller, and you may get a 3-way cabinet (lows, mids, highs) which means you don't need the crossover. You need to make this decision first (miking everything, or just the vocals and a few quieter instruments) - talk this over with the band and the venues where they will be playing.

Honestly - thinking about it now - I would probably have my eye out for a band selling a complete PA system. Buy a working rig from someone who knew what they were doing. And have someone knowlegeable with you when you buy it.

Also - I am sure people will come in here with different opinions, and the reason is that PAs really need to be matched to the band's needs, and we don't know what they need.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by cruisemates

No - they are suggesting you get non-powered speakers, and I agree. They are easier to handle and you get more sound power for the money.

I am not sure you needed the snake unless you also plan to have a soundman for the band running a mixer from somewhere in the audience. You DO need mic cables, though.

Honestly, I would buy an "Idiot's Guide" if I were you. You are never going to get everything you need to know in a message board.

Basically, you have a mixer, I assume with 20 inputs. Buy mic cables for every mic and spares. Also mic stands.

I do nto agree you have to mic everythig, especially in smaller venues, but if you CAN it is the better way to go. But the band has to want that also, which means they have to agree to turn down (not always easy for a young band).

So you have the mics and the mixer - Now you need to focus on the speaker section. Most people buy a 19" rack where they can install a crossover (separates the sound coming off the mixer into lows, mids and highs). From the crossover you need three amps;

1. High (usually a smaller wattage amp) to drive the horns
2. Mids - a medium powered amp to drive the mids, which are usually passive speaker cabs with medium size speakers (10 or 12-inch)
3. Lows - a heavy wattage amp to drive the woofers - usually 15" speakers in scooped or ported cabinets

This speaker assembly above (call it a tower) is usually in duplicate, one tower on each side of the stage. You can choose to run a PA in stereo, as most amps are stereo, but you get more power running it in mono.

And this is why you need a book - you now have to learn about matching power amps to speakers, ohms, bridging amps, etc. It is not just a matter of connecting things together.

Now - (important) you can decide to go smaller and put all your money into a nice P.A. that will mic just the vocals. The setup is similar except the speaker assembly is smaller, and you may get a 3-way cabinet (lows, mids, highs) which means you don't need the crossover. You need to make this decision first (miking everything, or just the vocals and a few quieter instruments) - talk this over with the band and the venues where they will be playing.

Honestly - thinking about it now - I would probably have my eye out for a band selling a complete PA system. Buy a working rig from someone who knew what they were doing. And have someone knowlegeable with you when you buy it.

Also - I am sure people will come in here with different opinions, and the reason is that PAs really need to be matched to the band's needs, and we don't know what they need.

Or he could just get POWERED speakers which will sound better and be easier to use.

[loudboy]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Or he could just get POWERED speakers which will sound better and be easier to use.

At $3K, a used passive system will outperform an active system.

I wouldn't go as far as Cruisemate's tri-amped rig, but I'd go w/something like my previous post.

[speakerjones]

Powered speakers are the way to go for portability and ease of use, and can be more efficient due to internal processing and (the good ones) being biamped (separate built-in amps for hi's and mids with an active crossover). They take up less space (no amp rack) and aren't really all that heavier than a standard passive speaker. The QSC's are great, but they're not cheap for your average band, and too new to easily find used. $3k's not gonna get you there. There have been some good suggestions and not so good already here.

I'd recommend also checking out the Live Sound and Production forum at Harmony Central. There are some really knowledgable cats over there including industry pros, weekend warriors, and guys in bands that have already made the mistakes and learned from them.

I'd also recommend checking out the latest edition of the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook. This is a great practical guide that can start you off with some basic knowledge so that you can hook this stuff up properly and have half a clue going in.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by loudboy

At $3K, a used passive system will outperform an active system.

I wouldn't go as far as Cruisemate's tri-amped rig, but I'd go w/something like my previous post.

For a newbie who doesn't have a clue a powered system will sound better since it has processing built in. Less chance of user error resulting in equipment failure also. There are good deals out there on used powered speakers also. I bought a pair of JBL PRX535s a few years ago that were 6 months old for $900.00.