School me on Les Pauls, what's the best for my purposes?

[fiveightandten]

Selling some stuff off that I don't use. I figure i'll have about $2500 to work with from that, give or take. Used or new.

Guitars I do have:
-Gibson SG '61 Reissue (1999)
-Rickenbacker 360/6 (1991)
-Fender Mex tele standard (2002)

My main gigging amp is a Vox AC-30TBX, though I also play some of the heads listed in my sig pretty often.

The band i'm in now is kind of an indie rock deal with some folky or alt country undertones and some aggressive stuff as well. I play a good deal of lead. The Ric sounds huge, but lacks the midrange bite of the SG. The SG has great midrange bite and crunch, but is on the thin side for certain things. I'm looking for something halfway inbetween. Enter, a Paul.

I love the thin neck on my SG, so I was thinking about a used LP classic with the thin 60's neck. Though, my other guitar player just bought a 2008 LP Custom and the thing is AMAZING. Baseball bat neck and all. It's way nicer than my SG, in a different league altogether. I'm not sure what year standards are decent to look at, and quite frankly when looking at buying new, there are WAY too many models to pick from now. I'm lost.

What's the deal with R7, R8, etc? I'm not up on the nomenclature. How can I tell which customs have maple tops and which are solid mahogany? What's the consensus on weight vs tone? What would you guys recommend? Think cranked vintage amps, NO overdrive pedals, just something that plays great, and sounds great. I don't need fancy flamed tops or anything, just a solid quality guitar.

Thanks in advance.

-Nick

[Whiskey N Beans]

Someone else knows infinitely more than I do but, the R stands for reissue and the 7s, 8s, etc. are the years. R4 = '54 specs (roughly) and so on, with the R0 being a 1960 model. These historic custom shop models really are worth their premium in my opinion.

I would suggest an R4, 8 or 9. I had never owned a non-Studio LP until a few months ago when I got a historic R4 Custom. What an unbelievable guitar. Believe it or not, it's well worth the $2K it cost me. As I understand it, nice used ones can be had for that pretty regularly. Is your SG an HB guitar? If so I recommend a P90 R4, either the custom (with the alnico 5 in the bridge) or the '54 with the wraparound bridge and dual P-90's. Gibson's P-90's are underated in my opinion. Such a guitar would sit nicely between your Tele and SG (If it's indeed an HB SG you have).

[rabbuhl]

Check out a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Plain Top. The 1960's has a thinner neck and costs $3299. It is a little more than you want to pay but it is worth it.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...tar?sku=H68053

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...tar?sku=H68051

If you call the Private Reserve line you can pick up the one that weighs and looks the best.

[twinrider1]

A used Guitar Center 1960 Reissue (G0)....bottom line, that's what I'd buy if I had $2500 and wanted a thin neck.

That said, go play a variety. Some people think they'll hate a thick neck and find out they actually like it.


Gibson has two segments: Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop.
The Custom Shop handles the Custom guitars, the Art Guitars, and the Historic line.
(If you look it probably actually says Custom, Art, & Historic)
Gibson USA handles the mass production guitars.

The Historic Line
R is shorthand for Historic Reissue. And the number is for the year.

R4 = 1954 Historic Reissue Stop tail/P90/usually gold/thicker neck
R6 = 1956 " " TOM /P90/usually gold/thicker neck
R7 = 1957 TOM /humbuckers/usually gold/thicker neck
R8 = 1958 TOM /humbuckers/plaintop 'burst/thicker neck
R9 = 1959TOM /humbuckers/flametop 'burst/thinner neck
R0 = 1960 " " TOM /humbuckers/flametop 'burst/thinnest neck

G0 = 1960 (Guitar Ctr Only) TOM /humbuckers/plaintop 'burst/thinnest neck

BB7= I always forget this one. Black Beauty, I don't know the stats.

Each year has it's own combination of tail piece, pickups, neck size, and top (gold, ebony, or plain burst or flamed burst)

Hope that answers part of your question. :-)

Oh, and VOS is really just a finish option, regardless of how Gibson tries to market it. VOS (dulled, rusty) or GLOSS, they're both the same Historic guitar. Last I heard, GLOSS was a $300 upcharge.

[AJ Love]

Most here will suggest a used R7 or R8 which will be in your budget and is certainly a great suggestion

My suggestion is to just try out a bunch of 'em and go with the one that "speaks to you". Thats what I did and ended up with a Les Paul Traditional. Maybe not as technically "nice" or as valuable as a Custom Shop Les Paul like a R7, R8, or R9 but it sounds incredible and thats why I bought it

[amc]

find a used historic
your most economical solution would be to find an GO, a run that the gibson custom shop built for guitar center.
this model is basically a plain top historic with the '60s slim neck carve

you can find a used historic lp that will fit within your price range.

[fiveightandten]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm surprised at all the suggestions for reissue guitars over something like a few year old used custom or standard. I wonder if it's because I mentioned liking the thin neck, or if they're just better suited for the purpose.

Originally Posted by Whiskey N Beans

Someone else knows infinitely more than I do but, the R stands for reissue and the 7s, 8s, etc. are the years. R4 = '54 specs (roughly) and so on, with the R0 being a 1960 model. These historic custom shop models really are worth their premium in my opinion.

I would suggest an R4, 8 or 9. I had never owned a non-Studio LP until a few months ago when I got a historic R4 Custom. What an unbelievable guitar. Believe it or not, it's well worth the $2K it cost me. As I understand it, nice used ones can be had for that pretty regularly. Is your SG an HB guitar? If so I recommend a P90 R4, either the custom (with the alnico 5 in the bridge) or the '54 with the wraparound bridge and dual P-90's. Gibson's P-90's are underated in my opinion. Such a guitar would sit nicely between your Tele and SG (If it's indeed an HB SG you have).

Ahh, makes sense. Thanks for the info. I'm just not up on LP nomenclature.

The SG '61 RI comes stocked with '57 classics. I've always liked the tone of out those pickups and I never had the urge to swap them out of that guitar. I love P-90's, but i'm looking for a paul for a traditional LP tone. I'd consider swapping P90's into the SG if I wind up with a Paul that does what the SG does, but with a little more beef.

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

Check out a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Plain Top. The 1960's has a thinner neck and costs $3299. It is a little more than you want to pay but it is worth it.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...tar?sku=H68053

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...tar?sku=H68051

If you call the Private Reserve line you can pick up the one that weighs and looks the best.

Thanks for the suggestion. $3299 is more than I can justify spending, but i'll check out the used market on those guitars.

Originally Posted by twinrider1

A used Guitar Center 1960 Reissue (G0)....bottom line, that's what I'd buy if I had $2500 and wanted a thin neck.

That said, go play a variety. Some people think they'll hate a thick neck and find out they actually like it.


Gibson has two segments: Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop.
The Custom Shop handles the Custom guitars, the Art Guitars, and the Historic line.
(If you look it probably actually says Custom, Art, & Historic)
Gibson USA handles the mass production guitars.

The Historic Line
R is shorthand for Historic Reissue. And the number is for the year.

R4 = 1954 Historic Reissue Stop tail/P90/usually gold/thicker neck
R6 = 1956 " " TOM /P90/usually gold/thicker neck
R7 = 1957 TOM /humbuckers/usually gold/thicker neck
R8 = 1958 TOM /humbuckers/plaintop 'burst/thicker neck
R9 = 1959TOM /humbuckers/flametop 'burst/thinner neck
R0 = 1960 " " TOM /humbuckers/flametop 'burst/thinnest neck

G0 = 1960 (Guitar Ctr Only) TOM /humbuckers/plaintop 'burst/thinnest neck

BB7= I always forget this one. Black Beauty, I don't know the stats.

Each year has it's own combination of tail piece, pickups, neck size, and top (gold, ebony, or plain burst or flamed burst)

Hope that answers part of your question. :-)

Oh, and VOS is really just a finish option, regardless of how Gibson tries to market it. VOS (dulled, rusty) or GLOSS, they're both the same Historic guitar. Last I heard, GLOSS was a $300 upcharge.

Thanks! This is great info to know. The Gibson world is infinitely more complicated than it was when I bought my SG new in 2000. One other thing (outside of the functionality of the guitar) that I wonder about is how the value of all these specialized models will fair years from now. It seems it'll be much easier to explain what a 2011 LP standard is, as opposed to one of the reissue models that seem to have multiple variations in and of themselves.

I'm not hell bent on a slim neck, but it's definitely nice to know that there are a lot of options out there if that's what suits me best, whereas the LP classic seemed to be the only one I remember having a neck like that 10 years ago when I was looking around. Haha.

Originally Posted by AJ Love

Most here will suggest a used R7 or R8 which will be in your budget and is certainly a great suggestion

My suggestion is to just try out a bunch of 'em and go with the one that "speaks to you". Thats what I did and ended up with a Les Paul Traditional. Maybe not as technically "nice" or as valuable as a Custom Shop Les Paul like a R7, R8, or R9 but it sounds incredible and thats why I bought it

Thanks for the input. I'll have to look into the reissue models, now that I have a concise explanation of what they are.

Originally Posted by amc

find a used historic
your most economical solution would be to find an GO, a run that the gibson custom shop built for guitar center.
this model is basically a plain top historic with the '60s slim neck carve

you can find a used historic lp that will fit within your price range.

Thanks...so by "historic", you're just referring to one of the custom shop RI's? I'll look into that guitar center one. Sounds like it's in the right ballpark.

-Nick

[fiveightandten]

I just found a very helpful thread after a little searching. For anyone else completely ignorant to LP's, this will help you out a lot:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibs...aul-101-a.html

[fiveightandten]

Just an update. I went to guitar center (I know, I know...but they have a large inventory, perfect for trying some guitars out) yesterday and played some Pauls.

I spent some time with the following:
-Les Paul Standard Traditional
-Les Paul Standard Pro
-Les Paul 1958 VOS
-Les Paul something or other non-chambered (Gibson USA guitar)
-Les Paul Custom (2010)
-Les Paul Supreme

I made a few conclusions...now bear in mind my references are my 1999 Gibson SG '61 RI, Rickenbacker 360, and my other guitarist's 2008 Les Paul Custom.

1) Les Paul standards feel like *garbage* compared to the custom shop guitars. They're light, have no resonance, and have a hollow woody tone to them, compared to the customs. I was astonished at how much of a difference the chambering makes. You read about this stuff on line, and to be honest, I was ready to pass a lot of it off as cork-sniffing. Definitely not the case. Additionally, the wood on the standards just felt, well, cheap. Both my Ric and SG have a resonance that just feels like the wood is much more dense. I wasn't impressed with any of the standards I played. To me, they felt like the Epiphones I remember playing 10 years ago when I bought my SG. No comparison. Cheap, light feeling wood that doesn't resonate. $2000+...? No thanks.

2) The Supreme was the lightest and most hollow sounding of them all. It had a brighter more open sound to it, and although the neck felt very light and porus, I actually enjoyed the feel of it. Still, I feel like the price tag on the supreme has a lot to do with upgraded aesthetics, which are of little importance to me. Maybe it was the ebony I was feeling in the neck that I liked. Still, not impressed enough to drop the cash on one.

3) Les Paul customs rule. I already knew this...but I love these guitars. There's just no comparison in the resonance, weight, and feel of them compared to the USA-made standards. The neck is definitely on the fat side compared to what i'm used to with my guitars, but i'm not opposed to it. Ideally i'd like to find something with a bit of a thinner neck to play that still resonates like this, similar to my SG. But a regular custom isn't out of the possbilities.

4) '58 VOS. Great guitar. Again, I loved it, in the same way as the custom. Though, the neck on this one felt even bigger. Without looking at any specs, it felt like the nut width was slightly wider. It could be my imagination. I feel like I could definitely adjust to the neck on the customs i've played. I feel like the '58 was a bit too much. Not sure if they're actually any different in size.


So, time to find some place that has some more custom ship reissues to play. Can anyone shed some light on which year Customs might be good to look into used? What to stay away from, etc?

Thanks again for the info.

-Nick

[duaneallen]

does it have to be a Gibson? I just got a Heritage 150 (Les Paul) made by the original guys at Gibson from the 50s. No weight relieving, and solid as a rock. Mine sounds fat and huge, just like a real Les Paul should. Oh, they are very reasonably priced too!

[joesnewmatch]

Originally Posted by fiveightandten

3) Les Paul customs rule. I already knew this...but I love these guitars. There's just no comparison in the resonance, weight, and feel of them compared to the USA-made standards. The neck is definitely on the fat side compared to what i'm used to with my guitars, but i'm not opposed to it. Ideally i'd like to find something with a bit of a thinner neck to play that still resonates like this, similar to my SG. But a regular custom isn't out of the possbilities.

Here's another option. I picked up a Custom Shop '68 RI Ebony Custom, used, on the forums, for around $2,250. It's one of my best guitars. They come standard with '57s, I think, but mine was modded with some amazing pickups. The 68 RI has the better wood, materials, and quality, like you noticed in your search. If you like Customs, the 68 RI is THE Custom to get, IMHO. I also prefer thin necks. Had a 61RI SG, and still have a LP Classic, both with thin, thin, thin necks. The 68 is huge in comparison, bu it doesn't bother me. Still looking for the right R0, at a reasonable price, but til then, I'm more than happy with the 68 RI. Also, Guitar Center has offered 68 RIs that come with, you guessed it, thin necks. Check the forums for used models, and save a bundle. Sounds like it may be exactly what you're looking for.