Went to the guitar shop yesterday - tried out a few Les Pauls.

[pedalguru]

Had a friend with me, and we did a blind playing test with a Marshall DSL 50 clean and dirty and pretty good volumes.

I gave my friend four Les Pauls to try out. He had no idea which one he was playing at any point in time until after he tried out all four of them.

-Les Paul Standard
-Les Paul Standard Epiphone with ugraded pickups
-Les Paul Agile AL3100
-Les Paul Custom Shop

To his hands, he could tell the difference between the Epiphone and the Gibsons. Fret work was cleaner, smoother - easier to play on the Gibsons and Agile.

We really couldn't tell the difference between ANY of the guitars sound wise. All had the Les Paul thing going on. However we noticed that the intonation on the Epiphone when playing in the upper registers was not up to par. We could pin point the epiphone every time he went into a solo.

But as far as power chords and open chords....and little licks....we really couldn't tell the difference between ANY of the guitars sound wise.

The Agile, surprisingly, felt the best in his hands. No intonation problems, smooth frets, easy to move aroudn the board.....


We both came away with thinking the Agile, for the money, simply cannot be beat. It stands up to a much, much more expensive models, and has all the tone and playability.

Go try one out. You won't be sorry.

[Tone_Terrific]

Originally Posted by pedalguru

Go try one out. You won't be sorry.

Getting folks to perform an unbiased assessment is pretty well impossible.
Good for you to try.

[hank]

If I were the OP, I'd buy Agile. Especially if you can't tell the difference. Money saved.

I see, feel and hear a difference ...... so I go w/ the Big G. YMMV

[neilr11]

Bought an Agile 3100 and was surprised at the build quality, tone, and playability, better than most Gibsons I've owned, I would of never believed it if I didn't take the plunge.

[XKnight]

These Agile threads seem to pop up on a regular basis. Some folks love them and some folks won't try them regardless.

Just curious OP, why didn't you or your friend buy the Agile if it was so great?

[bluesjuke]

I can tell the difference between my different Gibson LPs.

[djg714]

Must be selling Agiles.

[dspellman]

Originally Posted by hank

If I were the OP, I'd buy Agile. Especially if you can't tell the difference. Money saved.

I see, feel and hear a difference ...... so I go w/ the Big G. YMMV

We've done several "blind taste tests" with LPs over the last five years, just for fun. TWO of them included a real '59 (two different ones, one visiting, one lives here in town) - "other" brands have included Tokais, Ibanez, Aria and an Agile or two. Most times we try for ten guitars, bag the headstock and blindfold the players (two or three max). Some try to cheat a bit by running their hands around the finish (they're supposed to be going by sound and playability) and feeling the hardware. We quickly found that some players grabbed for the treble horn right away (didn't want to be caught out recommending the cheapest guitar), looking for a stubby Agile horn, so we had to find some older ones with the standard horn.

Not surprisingly, the '59's have come in roughly mid-pack or below, with most complaining that they sound a bit thin and that the frets are too skinny or too low. My theory is that most guitarists have really become accustomed to overwound pickups as part of the LP sound, and to medium jumbos as a stock fret.

Since they don't get to see what guitars they'll be playing before the test, they can't make guesses based on binding, etc. The older Agiles were recently PLEK'd (we figured it was only fair, since Gibson is now touting that theirs are) and gone over, so the pots are smooth and non-scratchy. Pickups are Alnico V's that sound very much like Gibson's '57s. Purchase price was right around $250 for each (they were a bit more when new back when). It's very rare that they don't make the top five.

Stock brand new Gibsons have never made the top five, PLEK'd at the factory or not. There's one older Gibson that we KNOW is gold in these things, and it's usually one of the top two. It's broken in, but not broken down, and there seems to be something magic about the pickups, though they aren't new ones.

[Scott Auld]

Owned an Agile, it was good for the money. Did not compare to nice Gibbys though.

They're what, $300, $400? I agree you can't beat them for that price.

Which custom shop Gibson, specifically, were you trying?

I sold the Agile.

[Windup 43]

Originally Posted by hank

If I were the OP, I'd buy Agile. Especially if you can't tell the difference. Money saved.

I see, feel and hear a difference ...... so I go w/ the Big G. YMMV

+1 I bought an Agile LP copy for fun a few years ago, but it in no way compared to my Gibby Standard- the differences to me were very obvious...

[dspellman]

Originally Posted by Windup 43

+1 I bought an Agile LP copy for fun a few years ago, but it in no way compared to my Gibby Standard- the differences to me were very obvious...

I think there are certainly differences.

The AL-3XXX series comes stock with a 13.7" radius fretboard. Gibsons range from 10" (actual) to 12" (their published standard). Some folks like that difference, some don't.

They come with real shell inlays (abalone or MOP, depending on the model) and with ebony fretboards, while even very expensive Gibbies come with rosewood and plastic. There are some folks who think that a real LP MUST have a rosewood fretboard.

Agiles mostly have a sort of '60s neck depth and can be had with a wider nut and with an even thinner neck. Mostly no baseball bat '50s necks.

The Agiles have polysomethingorother finishes and are generally *very* glossy. Note that it's not necessarily thicker or thinner than what Gibson puts on their guitars. Gibsons are slathered in nitro, and some of the guitars have a pretty thick glob of it. If you must have nitrocellulose on your guitar and prefer a slightly less glossy finish, there you go. Some gibsons (and all are at least double what the Agiles cost) have finishes that have no grain filler and just a hosing of matte lacquer. It's far cheaper to build guitars that way. But some people dig that.

The Agile AL-3XXX series have Alnico V pickups that sound and react very much like Gibson's '57s and P90s that sound like Gibson's P90s. Gibsons have, well, whatever gibson puts on that particular model. Burstbuckers, 490s, Charlie Christians, '57's, mini humbuckers, P90s, P100s, etc.

Agiles are, with only one or two model exceptions, SOLID body guitars. Weight varies. Most are solid mahogany guitars, and a few of those have a thin maple top (about 1/16th") for cosmetics. The model 3125 is a chambered guitar. Some models have solid 3/4" maple tops. Gibson's LP range includes solid body guitars (if you pay a whole LOT of money for them), chambered guitars, cheesed guitars and slightly thinner guitars. They've also included guitars that are both thinner and that are filled with balsa wood. Like Agile, they're either mahogany or mahogany plus maple guitars, but while there aren't any maple veneer guitars, there have been photo top guitars from gibson. And Gibson has used non-nitro lacquers in the past (usually acrylic), but those are usually clearcoated with nitro.

There are even a few Agile models that are unlike anything that Gibson puts out. The AL3200 is a neck-through guitar with a scarfed neck heel and a tummy cut like that on an Axcess, but with a solid full-thickness body (the Axcess is thinner and cheesed or chambered). No neck-through Gibsons. And there are several models of Agile with Floyds and solid full-thickness bodies. Gibson has pretty much limited Floyds to its Axcess line. Gibson uses an OFR trem that comes off the same Korean production line as the OFRs (when requested) and LFRs (standard) that are used in Agiles. Surprisingly, the only difference between the LFRs that Agile uses and the OFRs that Gibson uses is the stamping that identifies which is which.

Those are some of the differences; but most of these aren't to Agile OR gibson's detriment. They're just differences.

[Johnny Alien]

Originally Posted by dspellman

Stock brand new Gibsons have never made the top five, PLEK'd at the factory or not.

Right here is where I start to see a bias. I can believe this with some of the lower end faded Gibsons but past that most stock Gibsons will be noticeably better in most aspects than an Agile. I have played Agiles and I do think they are good for the money. But their price range is much lower and that is where they shine. Up against an Epi it will reign king. Up against a Gibson? Not in my experience.

[Tone_Terrific]

Originally Posted by Windup 43

+1 I bought an Agile LP copy for fun a few years ago, but it in no way compared to my Gibby Standard- the differences to me were very obvious...

hmmm..
The post below yours outlines some of the differences.
Some would be obvious.
Some would lead to preferences.
It might run either way.
Defining 'quality' and preference is a tricky business.
Failure to meet the customer's requirements, at a given price, is a quality failure, but a lot of players are unable to define their own requirements.

[GuitarsFromMars]

Um.

I think you might want to learn to play well enough to try some of these for yourself.

Quality is not well differentiated.

Nor is your skill set, or your friend's.

[scolfax]

Great post. I've done blind tests where the unpopular gear comes out equal to the boutique stuff. But best of luck convincing some people that their favorite brand isn't magical.