Installing speakers correctly!?

[papersoul]

Hi all!

I was reading Jim's great article on installing speakers...
His is about vintage style frames.

I use Celestion G12K-100s, CL-80s and Heritage G12-65 speakers.
Should I follow the same procedure? Maybe I am unfamiliar with vintage frames!


This is Jim's procedure:

How to install your speakers for maximum tonal enjoyment.
When mounting your speakers, use caution. Vintage style
frames (thinner) require that you mount the speakers using an X
pattern method.
A) Tighten all bolts/screws finger tight till the bolt meets back of the speaker
frame.
B) Hand tighten in a cross frame or X pattern like a head gasket on a car engine.
DO NOT TIGHTEN in a clock-wise circular fashion as you can warp the frame.
C) Tighten 1/4 turn on each bolt in an X pattern in one pass, then the other 1/4 to
1/2 successive turns in successive passes. This will compress the gasket
enough to ensure a proper seal, and without warping the frame. I recommend no
more than 1 full turn after the bolt meets the back of the frame, usually 2/3 to 3/4
is good.
Failure to do this could result in a damaged cone, bent frame, or unusually high
shrill, or muddy bass noises from over-tightening.
DO NOT USE AN ELECTRIC DRILL SET TO A TORQUE SETTING!

[Dave]

That's a good way to install any speaker with a stamped steel basket. I like to use a flat washer with a split lock washer between the flat washer and screw head.

[papersoul]

How can I tell if I have damaged my speakers already? I do know that I never over tighten. I use a screw driver and just make em snug.

I always get worried they could come loose though.

[solitaire]

If it sounds and performs alright the speaker is supposed to be OK. It's no rocket science and even if at some point it was a bit over tightened it should go back to its normal state if untightening the screws a bit.

You should always tighten so that the screws meet with some resistance. Using an ordinary screwdriver and not applying any brute force when tightening the screws should get you in the region. That way they can't work loose.

What you shouldn't do is going beyond that by using unnecessary force, an electric or pneumatic machine or a lever or any other piece of gear that would be used to apply a certain momentum you wouldn't be able to unscrew using a screwdriver and hand force only.

[papersoul]

Solitaire, that is what I do...only by hand using a screw driver to snug tight.....but I never counted turns, etc! I typically tighten in a cross pattern but I can't be certain that I have always done that! Yikes.

[solitaire]

Originally Posted by papersoul

Solitaire, that is what I do...only by hand using a screw driver to snug tight.....but I never counted turns, etc! I typically tighten in a cross pattern but I can't be certain that I have always done that! Yikes.

Like I said it's not rocket science. Most places where you'd find screws or nuts you can, if not taken great care, over tighten them. Frames of speakers are made rigid for more than one reason.

There's a joke about american instructions and user's manuals in general. Sometimes they may say "You shouldn't put your fingers into the mains outlet or you could get a lethal electric shock" and things like that - some rather obvious to most. Shouldn't the manufacturer put it there he may face heavy warranty costs or even a lawsuit by someone stupid enough to try what the instructions doesn't explicitly say is proper use. That I would imagine is why the Scumback instructions are so to the point.

[papersoul]

I just find it interesting that you rarely if ever see installation instructions with speakers and if you think about it, i am sure there are plenty of guitarists who have installed speakers by really cranking down the screws.

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally Posted by papersoul

I just find it interesting that you rarely if ever see installation instructions with speakers and if you think about it, i am sure there are plenty of guitarists who have installed speakers by really cranking down the screws.

Yes, and they've wondered why the speakers sounded bad without knowing they might have caused it.

I've had so many emails from players reinstalling their speakers per my instructions and saying "Hey that ________ noise is gone now. Thanks!"

Rule of thumb...

Cast frames can take quite a bit of torque as their frames are thicker.

Stamped steel frames (Celestion, Eminence, WGS, mine, etc) are thinner and you can bend them by over tightening the speaker bolts.

Solution: Follow my instructions for stamped steel frames and be happy!

[papersoul]

That is what I meant Jim.....there might be a lot more happy campers out there if they had only known about this. A lot of fantastic musicians haven't the slightest clue about their gear and would never know. Wish more speaker manufacturers mentioned this.

Jim, where are your instructions for stamped steel frames? I saw the Vintage frames instructions.

[ripoffriffs]

Here's a problem I've discovered with Mesa cabs....

They're built with the bolts embedded (for lack of a better word) to the baffle. You mount the speaker and bolt it with those nuts that have plastic on the inside threads (don't know the proper term for them). I guess they are designed never to come lose.

Problem with those nuts is... they're already too tight to turn even if the nut has not even touched the speaker frame yet. So by the time you've turned them and the nut is touching the spkr frame, you don't really know how tight you're setting them. They are a PITA.

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally Posted by papersoul

That is what I meant Jim.....there might be a lot more happy campers out there if they had only known about this. A lot of fantastic musicians haven't the slightest clue about their gear and would never know. Wish more speaker manufacturers mentioned this.

Jim, where are your instructions for stamped steel frames? I saw the Vintage frames instructions.

The vintage (and most current production) Celestion frames are stamped steel frames, so you'd use the same bolt tightening procedure, sir.

[stratotastic]

Originally Posted by ripoffriffs

Here's a problem I've discovered with Mesa cabs....

They're built with the bolts embedded (for lack of a better word) to the baffle. You mount the speaker and bolt it with those nuts that have plastic on the inside threads (don't know the proper term for them). I guess they are designed never to come lose.

Problem with those nuts is... they're already too tight to turn even if the nut has not even touched the speaker frame yet. So by the time you've turned them and the nut is touching the spkr frame, you don't really know how tight you're setting them. They are a PITA.

This sorta reminds me of my recent experience replacing the crappy G12M-70s in my Marshall. The screws holding in the 70s were too short for the much thicker WGS frames that were going in, so I ended up just rotating the new speakers a hair and using some wood screws to screw them right into the baffle. Worked like a charm! Sound great too.

[solitaire]

Originally Posted by ripoffriffs

Here's a problem I've discovered with Mesa cabs....

They're built with the bolts embedded (for lack of a better word) to the baffle. You mount the speaker and bolt it with those nuts that have plastic on the inside threads (don't know the proper term for them). I guess they are designed never to come lose.

Problem with those nuts is... they're already too tight to turn even if the nut has not even touched the speaker frame yet. So by the time you've turned them and the nut is touching the spkr frame, you don't really know how tight you're setting them. They are a PITA.

Yes, those are locking nuts. In my experience you really don't need those. You can, should you want to, use a regular nut and then use loctite or liquid gasket or similar to lock the nut when tightened. This will prevent it from going anywhere and the speaker will be safely seated where it is. This however does also prevent it from going anywhere and the speaker stays where it is unless you take certain extreme measures.

[StoneAge Cabs]

I include the mounting info from Jim [along with the proper method to remove/install rear panels] with every cab that leaves my shop. But, I thought it was imperative to add info from a builders perspective.

Folks, BE PATIENT WHEN INSTALLING SPEAKERS! Never force a machine screw into a t-nut. Always start the initial threading BY HAND. If a screw gun is used, [WHICH I DO NOT RECOMMEND], especially at the start of threading, there is an increased chance of cross threading to either the screw, or worse yet, the t-nut. Not good, especially in my cabs, as the t-nuts are not removeable.


Before installing speakers:

****BE SURE ALL OLD GASKET MATERIAL/SPEAKER GLUE IS REMOVED FROM THE PERIMETER OF THE SPEAKER MOUNTING HOLE. IF NOT THOROUGHLY REMOVED, SOME MATERIAL MAY GET CAUGHT BETWEEN THE MACHINE SCREW & T-NUT MAKING IT DIFFICULT TO INSTALL MACHINE SCREW INTO T-NUT. VISUALLY INSPECT THE BARREL [interior] OF THE T-NUTS TO BE SURE THEY ARE CLEAR OF ANY UNWANTED MATERIALS*****


A little bit of pre-op makes the surgery go well...

[StoneAge Cabs]

Originally Posted by Scumback Speakers

Cast frames can take quite a bit of torque as their frames are thicker.

They usually require a slightly longer machine screw, as well.