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  #46  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:35 AM
Top_Cat Top_Cat is offline
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Crazy, n00b question no doubt but I'm not that interested in controlling the loop function of my TL from an external device, mostly interested in being able to save sounds to get to with one-click. Looking at the DMC-6, having 6 sounds would be damn handy. Does it do this or which firmware would I need to install?

Also, will it get in the way of using the TL's buttons to run the loop on the rare occasion I want it?

Wouldn't mind a look at the different colours too, no pics are up on the site. Looks like I might have a DMC in my future at this stage, though....
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  #47  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:45 AM
crxshdxmmy crxshdxmmy is offline
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Matt is the expert, but a few insights I can lend:

1. Matt can cook up any kind of MIDI coding you need. Even after we got the DMC-3 set up the way I thought I wanted it to begin with, he was more than willing to help me tweak it further and refine the modes to my specifications, once I'd had some time with it.

2. In short, no — the DMC's ability to control the TL looper in no way impedes on the unit itself, or the onboard looping controls.

3. While aluminum boxes are the current standard, Matt accommodated my request for a black box... and I'm sure he can put you in whatever color you're looking for.
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  #48  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:48 AM
ChaseTMP ChaseTMP is offline
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I have the DMC 6 and here are some of it's finer points:

In mode 1, you're in looper mode

4 5 6
1 2 3

1: Record / Overdub
2: Play
3: Stop
4: Half Speed
5: Reverse
6: Pre / Post

To select Mode 2, press and hold button 2 (lower middle) at startup. The DMC will switch to Mode 2 and save this setting in its memory. It will then start in Mode 2 at every boot unless you select Mode 1 at startup.

Mode 2 sends MIDI Program Change messages 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05. This will select the corresponding bank and preset from the Timeline:

00: Bank 0, A
01: Bank 0, B
02: Bank 1, A
03: Bank 1, B
04: Bank 2, A
05: Bank 2, B
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  #49  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:00 AM
Top_Cat Top_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crxshdxmmy View Post
Matt is the expert, but a few insights I can lend:

1. Matt can cook up any kind of MIDI coding you need. Even after we got the DMC-3 set up the way I thought I wanted it to begin with, he was more than willing to help me tweak it further and refine the modes to my specifications, once I'd had some time with it.
That's bloody handy, actually. At this stage, I'm only looking for something to switch between several presets but I'm sure over time, other ways to configure it will become apparent.

Honestly, the street cred of having something noone else has is part of it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crxshdxmmy View Post
3. While aluminum boxes are the current standard, Matt accommodated my request for a black box... and I'm sure he can put you in whatever color you're looking for.
Racing stripe!

Still, wouldn't mind some pics of different colours. Got any lying around Matt?
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  #50  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:48 PM
DisasterArea DisasterArea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
That's bloody handy, actually. At this stage, I'm only looking for something to switch between several presets but I'm sure over time, other ways to configure it will become apparent.

Honestly, the street cred of having something noone else has is part of it too.



Racing stripe!

Still, wouldn't mind some pics of different colours. Got any lying around Matt?
Actually I do - I'm currently buying the pre-finished enclosures from Mammoth Electronics so you can see samples on their site. I'm really not looking to get in the custom paint business, I have enough to do with all the DMC controllers I'm trying to ship I can do some powder-coating here for one-off builds but I'm really not set up for any kind of volume. I was using a local shop but they ended up getting too busy and my stuff got pushed to the side, so now I'm using Mammoth.

If you just want to instantly switch to a certain sound, then Mode 2 on the DMC-6 will do it. It's not that useful on the smaller pedals, with only 2, 3, 4 presets. One other thing I can do is make a second press of the preset switch disable the effect - press 1 to engage 00A, press 1 again I send the A footswitch command to bypass. Press 2 to engage 00B, press again I send B to bypass, etc. That's pretty handy and it works kind of like the M9 FX select mode.
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  #51  
Old 09-01-2011, 03:53 PM
guitarpkr67 guitarpkr67 is offline
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Wow. I need one of these. Might just order the board an build it myself. Thanks for all the hard work on this, guys!
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  #52  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Top_Cat Top_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisasterArea View Post
Actually I do - I'm currently buying the pre-finished enclosures from Mammoth Electronics so you can see samples on their site. I'm really not looking to get in the custom paint business, I have enough to do with all the DMC controllers I'm trying to ship I can do some powder-coating here for one-off builds but I'm really not set up for any kind of volume. I was using a local shop but they ended up getting too busy and my stuff got pushed to the side, so now I'm using Mammoth.

If you just want to instantly switch to a certain sound, then Mode 2 on the DMC-6 will do it. It's not that useful on the smaller pedals, with only 2, 3, 4 presets. One other thing I can do is make a second press of the preset switch disable the effect - press 1 to engage 00A, press 1 again I send the A footswitch command to bypass. Press 2 to engage 00B, press again I send B to bypass, etc. That's pretty handy and it works kind of like the M9 FX select mode.
Mate, I'm sold. DMC-6 is the one I'll get, will put it through your website soon.

Mind you, as good as the options are, you surely would have gained a sense of the 'best' of other configurations to control the Timeline by now, yeah? Are there any others you'd recommend? I'm sure other innovative ways people are using your product will come about too.

Probably ideal for me would be to have multiple presets on 5 of the buttons with one button left over to do bypass. So, for example, Pressing [1], gives you a green LED and one sound, pressing it again gives you a blue LED/flasihg green and another sound whilst pressing [6] does the bypass. Is that at all possible?

Again, just want to echo the thoughts of others that having the very bloke who makes this stuff on-tap is just massive. Thanks for all of your help.
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  #53  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:10 PM
DisasterArea DisasterArea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
Mate, I'm sold. DMC-6 is the one I'll get, will put it through your website soon.

Mind you, as good as the options are, you surely would have gained a sense of the 'best' of other configurations to control the Timeline by now, yeah? Are there any others you'd recommend? I'm sure other innovative ways people are using your product will come about too.

Probably ideal for me would be to have multiple presets on 5 of the buttons with one button left over to do bypass. So, for example, Pressing [1], gives you a green LED and one sound, pressing it again gives you a blue LED/flasihg green and another sound whilst pressing [6] does the bypass. Is that at all possible?

Again, just want to echo the thoughts of others that having the very bloke who makes this stuff on-tap is just massive. Thanks for all of your help.
The short answer is yes, you can make the controller do pretty much whatever you want. If you want different program change values sent per footswitch press, that's not a problem.

I do have a sort of "greatest hits" of Timeline controls as I do for the Line 6 M-series. For most use cases, we're sending CC messages to turn FX on and off, or PC messages to change "programs" (presets on the TL, scenes on the M-series.)

The one issue I see is that the DMC has fourteen available pins. On the DMC-6, we use six for the footswitches and six for the LEDs. One is for the analog input, so that leaves one. Having a bunch of RGB LEDs is kind of tough at that point. For the DMC-6 I can add one RGB LED to indicate a mode, but six of them requires eighteen pins, and I can't do it without extra hardware. I can blink the LEDs, but that's not quite as easy to spot as a different color.

The easiest way to use a multiple preset setup is to have the first press engage the new preset, then a second press on the same switch bypasses. The other thing that you can do to make this a little more ergonomic is to make a hold on any button is also a bypass - that way you don't have to give up a button for bypass, and you don't have to hit any certain button for a bypass either.

One very important point to note on the Timeline - sending program change messages is more reliable than using bank up/down. A program change message always carries a certain number - PC 01 always goes to program 01, which is Bank 00B. It's what we'd call an "absolute" position. A bank change is a "relative" position - when the message gets sent, the DMC doesn't necessarily know where we are, and it doesn't know where we're going. It just knows that we went up one or down one. We CAN keep track of the bank value internally, so that we have an idea of where we're going, but if you ever change patches or banks on the TL by using its footswitches, then you'll lose sync between the two pedals. There are ways to re-sync, by sending a program change message for instance, but it gets nasty.

The one real weakness of the DMC series right now is that they're not really user-configurable. You can reprogram it really easily, and even right your own firmware, but once it's programmed you're kind of stuck. The strength is that since they're completely programmable, I can fix that weakness in the future
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Holy Schnikes Holy Schnikes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
Wouldn't mind a look at the different colours too, no pics are up on the site.
Mine was finished in a sparkle silver, looks top notch :
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:26 PM
khenson khenson is offline
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Matt, your DMC-3 looks killer. I have a quick question:

It says that the right switch in looper mode is 'play' and you have to hold it to stop. If it's already playing and you just press that switch, it starts playing immediately from the beginning. What would be much more useful to me is having that switch toggle play and stop: If it's playing, it stops. If it's not playing, it starts. Is this possible?
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  #56  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:38 PM
DisasterArea DisasterArea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khenson View Post
Matt, your DMC-3 looks killer. I have a quick question:

It says that the right switch in looper mode is 'play' and you have to hold it to stop. If it's already playing and you just press that switch, it starts playing immediately from the beginning. What would be much more useful to me is having that switch toggle play and stop: If it's playing, it stops. If it's not playing, it starts. Is this possible?
Sure, the code change is minimal. I use hold for stop so that you don't lose the ability to tap-tap-tap the pedal for play repeat. If you don't use that, then I can make it stop immediately.

The real issue here is that the only way for the pedal to tell the difference between a press and a press-hold is with a timer. Press the button, start the timer. If the button is released quickly, say in 50ms or less, then do the "press" action. If the button is held for longer than that, then you do the "hold" action. You can even have a third action on a "hold release!" That all takes just one timer, pretty simple. On the M9 "DD-6 Hold Mode" firmware, I use the press+hold action to start recording, then the "hold release" makes it start playing. A second press+release (not a hold) stops the looper. So in that case I'm using all 3 possible actions.

On the Timeline, I want the playback to start as soon as the play button is pressed, since the loop timing is can be really critical. The press+hold action is set to happen after 500ms (half a second) but it's generally enough to prevent accidental stop messages. I can reduce the time, but you're right - the loop will start playing again, THEN stop. It's a compromise since we only have 3 buttons and the TL has no real "play once" functionality like the Line 6 loopers. I personally use Play Once all the time to trigger a short loop, tapping the switch once on the downbeat to maintain sync with the drummer.


I can work it either way.

Right now I'm offering two variations on the DMC-3 / 4 firmware: "Bank Mode" or "Patch Mode." These are both available in Blue mode, one scrolls banks, the other scrolls patches. In patch mode, we activate each patch in turn, in bank mode we scroll bank by bank but you'll still have to press A or B to activate a patch. Starting in version 1.2, you'll be able to select these by pressing the 1 or 2 buttons at startup. I could also offer Instant or Delayed Stop as a second startup option.

Button 1: Bank mode, delay stop
Button 2: Patch mode, delay stop
Button 1+3: Bank mode, instant stop
Button 2+3: Patch mode, instant stop

I hate having to come up with a whole new version every time one more change happens But I've had at least 3 requests for patch mode so just making it an option seemed a good idea. I think the instant vs. delayed stop would be a good option as well.
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  #57  
Old 09-03-2011, 11:00 AM
crxshdxmmy crxshdxmmy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisasterArea View Post
Button 1: Bank mode, delay stop
Button 2: Patch mode, delay stop
Button 1+3: Bank mode, instant stop
Button 2+3: Patch mode, instant stop
Stay tuned for some new video content later today.
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  #58  
Old 09-03-2011, 01:22 PM
crxshdxmmy crxshdxmmy is offline
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  #59  
Old 09-03-2011, 01:39 PM
khenson khenson is offline
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Great, now I have to buy one because Matt made it do exactly what I requested in less than 24 hours. Great. Just great.

But seriously, wow. Thanks to both you guys for making the value of this pedal abundantly clear. Expect my order soon!
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2011, 01:51 PM
crxshdxmmy crxshdxmmy is offline
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All the credit goes to Matt. I'm just the stooge making the videos.
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