Who is now considering the Kemper instead of the Axe-II?

[hippietim]

Originally Posted by guitarnet70

I think Chili Pepper is ok...inside of a Taco with lots of beer I like it...

Well, when you put it in those terms...

[mwc2112]

Originally Posted by Henky

But the Kemper does trigger my imagination (the AXE doesn't)

Kind of interesting that a product that, by definition, copies tones triggers the imagination whereas a product that requires you to create your own tones does not. It just seems that something like the Kemper leaves much less to the imagination.

[Stef_herbuel]

well, considering i already have an ultra , and that some people told the II wasn't a "huge" improvment, that it's not available except if i want to pay more than 3000 dollars on ebay without garanty,that for some reason i can't buy online in fractal store and have to wait g66 to have the axe fx II, and that kemper seems to be a real challenger to axe fx in term of sound an feel,
and considering i should have my axe fx II since end of july (from delay i was told by g66) and that we are in september and that i have absolutly no idea if i may have one in 2011,
then YES i'm considering buy the kemper instead the axe fx II , and i think i will not be the only one :
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...d.php?t=954941

[guitarnet70]

I've already pre-ordered one...keeping my Axe II order as well...for now...just in case...

[Henky]

Originally Posted by mwc2112

Kind of interesting that a product that, by definition, copies tones triggers the imagination whereas a product that requires you to create your own tones does not. It just seems that something like the Kemper leaves much less to the imagination.

It does not simply "copy" tones, you forget there are numerous variables involved, if it was only the placement of the mic while profiling.
And ones you got your profile you can tweak your heart out and as the website says "IMAGINE to change the sonic character of a profile way beyond what’s possible with the amp itself".
The possibilities with profiling are endless and it's open for all sorts of experimentation and we'll see some very creative things happen as people will find all sorts of ways to profile sounds.
Whereas with the AXE you'll be limited to the 60 to 70 amp models provided by fractal, sure you can tweak them all you want but it's definitely not "creating your own tone" simply because you can't change the core of the sound being the amp model itself.
I feel really excited about the Kemper and indeed I'm imagining what sounds I want and could profile.
It more or less feels like when CD burners first came out, creating your own CD with your own songs etc. etc. it opened up so much possibilities and now you can't even buy a CDrom which can't burn CD's.
It's like you got multitrack recorders which can only play but not record and now there's this new recorder which gives you the ability to not only play music but also record, for me it's the same excitement.
The Kemper opens up possibilities behind your wildest dreams and within ten years every modeler can do profiling I'm sure.
No it's not simply a copier, capturing every sound possible will prove to be the ultimate way for people to be creative, just IMAGINE what you can do with such a device.

[Eric Thomas]

At first I wasn't interested in profiling, but the more I think about it I have access to about 25 vintage and boutique amps between a few friends. The technology looks pretty cool and I know I will eventually pick one up on the used market.

Bit it won't be "instead" of the Axe II. It will be in addition to my Axe II

[RayRay]

Originally Posted by Henky

It does not simply "copy" tones, you forget there are numerous variables involved, if it was only the placement of the mic while profiling.
And ones you got your profile you can tweak your heart out and as the website says "IMAGINE to change the sonic character of a profile way beyond what’s possible with the amp itself".
The possibilities with profiling are endless and it's open for all sorts of experimentation and we'll see some very creative things happen as people will find all sorts of ways to profile sounds.
Whereas with the AXE you'll be limited to the 60 to 70 amp models provided by fractal, sure you can tweak them all you want but it's definitely not "creating your own tone" simply because you can't change the core of the sound being the amp model itself.
I feel really excited about the Kemper and indeed I'm imagining what sounds I want and could profile.
It more or less feels like when CD burners first came out, creating your own CD with your own songs etc. etc. it opened up so much possibilities and now you can't even buy a CDrom which can't burn CD's.
It's like you got multitrack recorders which can only play but not record and now there's this new recorder which gives you the ability to not only play music but also record, for me it's the same excitement.
The Kemper opens up possibilities behind your wildest dreams and within ten years every modeler can do profiling I'm sure.
No it's not simply a copier, capturing every sound possible will prove to be the ultimate way for people to be creative, just IMAGINE what you can do with such a device.

How many people have a need for more than 60-70 amp models? And you'd be surprised how much you can change the core amp tone. It's funny... everyone else seems to knock the Axe for not having a smaller number of models (albeit at at a lower price point). Now 70 isn't enough.

I don't buy into the "in ten years every modeler can do profiling" ... in ten years "profiling" or whatever will likely be obsolete. And by the way, it's still a simulation of the real thing. Next thing you know someone will come out with "Amp Signature" technology that obsolesces profiling and emulations.

That's it. I'm trademarking that. "Our new Amplification Signature technology faithfully recreates the sound and feel of the most popular mainstream and most coveted boutique amps ever. Forget everything you know about digital modeling, simulation, emulation, and profiling. Amplification Signatures is the most revolutionary technology available for the discerning musician."

Who needs a Profile when you have a Signature?

I guess I'm not seeing the revolution here. Cool? Yes. Useful? Sure. Ups the bar? Maybe.

I guess it just isn't for me. I can't remember ever thinking "damn, I wish I had an exact model of my Guytron GT 20 with an SM57 at 3" off the speaker off axis" ... and what if my GT 20 sounds different than another one? There are variances in amp sounds. So if someone shares a preset, er, profile of, say, a Silver Jubilee 25/50, by nature of the profile, it will be a recreation of one amp. It may not sound like my old one (that I bought for $700, owned for a week, and sold for $700 because I didn't have space for a half stack... still kick myself for that one). Or it may not help me get "my tone" in general ..... which by the way, I already have in the Axe.

Anyway, that's my take. Again. Interesting to follow this and to see where the market grows. But everything I'm seeing/reading is marketing spiel that's tantamount to what we saw prior to the HD series availability.

Looking forward to hearing clips and seeing reviews from *real* users.

[Jay Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Henky

Whereas with the AXE you'll be limited to the 60 to 70 amp models provided by fractal, sure you can tweak them all you want but it's definitely not "creating your own tone" simply because you can't change the core of the sound being the amp model itself.

Never spent much time with an Axe-Fx, huh?

[lspaulsp]

Originally Posted by Scott Peterson

Good discussion points and interesting theory.

It's a good time to make noise with an electric guitar. I love that we have even more choices for the methods to make that noise now. Let's hope someone takes some of these new fangled boxes and gets electric guitar driven music back into the mainstream again.

That'll happen when all the poop is gone and someone CRANKS IT TILL YOUR EARS BLEED or we can all go back to listening to ZZ TOPS First Album and be happy!

[lspaulsp]

On the other hand I might get a KEMPER. I sold my Marshall to finance my ESTEBAN amp and guitar. I don't think the Esteban quite fill the bill so I'm thinking of building a new rig with my AFX, 11R, HD500, G3 and Kemper in the effects loop. Maybe that'll help. SARCASM sorry!

[paulmapp8306]

Originally Posted by Berlin Chris

Sorry Jay, you are correct. It was an exaggeration to get my point across and originally my last post was meant as an comment to paulmapp8306. I should have quoted his post first. My mistake. I will try to leave the Axe-Fx out of this discussion.

Can i take exception then

I am not saying the AFX is perfect. I am not saying that the KPA wont sound great once the amp/cab part is taken away anf you then use a real amp/cab.

However, Thats how I would use the KPA. Ive never got on with FRFR, if fact I dont even like playing through a REAL mic'd amp in an iso booth with me elsewhere. Its just how I am.

Given that its imortant to me how the KPA works in this configuration. Heres the thing, no-one seems to have tried it. There are no clips of it running this way, there are no posts of people hearing or trying it in this way - so at present NOBODY except possible Kemper themselves knows how it performers, be that well or rubbish.

As it is clearly impossible to extract the amp/cab after the fact accurately, the sound going this was is compromised. Now, if you use the same cab the original profile was taken through it SHOULD should the same - it wont. It may sound a lot different, maybe only a little. How much (if any) of the dynamics the KPA obviously has are lost in this process?

These are questions unanswered currently, both in post and clip form. They may be unimportant to some but very importnat to others. They may not be an issue and it may work fine, It may be better than the AFX, it may not be (in this format). I am only asking the Qs, being sceptical on claims that are actually impossible, pointing out the possible downfalls. As a potential purchaser of the KPA I need these Qs answering before I can consider a pre-order or purchase.

Ultimately, I need clips, or first hand experience of the KPA used with real amp/cab after this part of the profile has been removed. Whether its exactly the same as the real amp through the real cab is not THAT important (needs to be close though). Having the same Quality dynamically to the clips we have seen is important to me.

The clips of the KPA to date sound stunning, and if I was interested in a recording only device and to a lesser extent (because of routing, control, ammount of FX etc - though some of these Qs are now being ansered by Mats)) for live, direct to FOH use - then Id be all over the KPA. I Really want the KPa to work for my needs as well - its cheaper than the AFX2, and if its closer to the real deal when used in the way I would use it then Ill be over the moon.

At present - none of my Qs or worries have been answered - I just get remarks about how picky Im being and that I should stick wioth the "fabulouse" AFX.

[Henky]

Originally Posted by RayRay

How many people have a need for more than 60-70 amp models? And you'd be surprised how much you can change the core amp tone. It's funny... everyone else seems to knock the Axe for not having a smaller number of models (albeit at at a lower price point). Now 70 isn't enough.

I'm not saying the KPA is better or 70 amp models isn't enough.
I'm just saying the KPA is a different ball game and definitely not just a copier.
It's like with cars, the AFX is the best and most luxurious car ever made, a Bugatti Veyron Super Sports so to speak.
But it's still a car, with the KPA you can fly...

[Stef_herbuel]

Originally Posted by paulmapp8306

However, Thats how I would use the KPA. Ive never got on with FRFR, if fact I dont even like playing through a REAL mic'd amp in an iso booth with me elsewhere. Its just how I am.

Given that its imortant to me how the KPA works in this configuration. Heres the thing, no-one seems to have tried it. There are no clips of it running this way, there are no posts of people hearing or trying it in this way - so at present NOBODY except possible Kemper themselves knows how it performers, be that well or rubbish.

As it is clearly impossible to extract the amp/cab after the fact accurately, the sound going this was is compromised. Now, if you use the same cab the original profile was taken through it SHOULD should the same - it wont. It may sound a lot different, maybe only a little. How much (if any) of the dynamics the KPA obviously has are lost in this process?

......

Ultimately, I need clips, or first hand experience of the KPA used with real amp/cab after this part of the profile has been removed. Whether its exactly the same as the real amp through the real cab is not THAT important (needs to be close though). Having the same Quality dynamically to the clips we have seen is important to me.
.

really good point

[guitarnet70]

...let's keep our feet on the ground and the head below the clouds. I'm also very interested and excited about KPA...but it is still a bit early for such statement. At least 'till I'll have one in the hand...and still... I weight over 100kg....

Edit: referring to Henky's post

[banjoze]

Regarding Henky's car / flying analogy:

There's a guy in the computer industry named Mike Abrash. He's one of the greatest graphics programmers on the planet (or at least he was at one point - not sure where he is these days). Mike used to write a magazine column on programming and, for fun, also hosted a contest to see who could write a computer program that played "The Game of Life" from start to finish the fastest.

Every time someone had written what Mike considered an unbeatable program some other character would think up a completely different approach that one-upped the previous winner. This occurred so many times that Mike finally publicly proclaimed "There Ain't No Such Thing as the Fastest Code"...

I'm reminded of this as I look at the world of amp/cab/effect modeling. Line6 comes along and ups the game, partly in modeling and especially in integration of the software / hardware. Vox jumps in with a preamp tube to help with tube-like feel. Revalver comes out with software that lets you assemble the amp circuit in software at previously unprecedented levels. Fractal pops up with a no-compromise-on-engineering approach and some new ideas that sounds better, but costs more. IRs come from Redwirez, Ownhammer, etc. Line6 upgrades their game to HD. Then Fractal does it again, with even more power and new virtual tube technology, etc. People post on Fractal forums asking the creator where he thinks things could be improved (if anywhere)?

Then Kemper comes out of the blue with a completely different approach that shakes things up again... Meanwhile the latency between PCs/Macs and their audio interfaces steadily gets smaller and smaller with entries from Apogee, etc. that are pretty affordable. Scuffham comes out with a fresh software modeling entry that surprises many of us with sound quality rivaling the big boys.... for $75 no less. Overloud cranks out v2 of its software with better sounds (some licensed) for high-gain than before. Guitar Rig... etc. etc.

(and I didn't even mention half of the players here... sorry if your fav got left out..)

and on it goes.... As Mike Abrash would say, "There ain't no such thing as the BEST modeler."... And, there obviously is no ONE approach to great sound either.

Hang on folks. This ride is just getting started...