Interesting comparison: AxeFxII and Kemper (and others if you want to add them)

[stratzrus]

Originally Posted by m~Dan

I am
Played an Axe-FX Std and Ultra from the very beginning Wanted to get the Axe2 - but I don't want to wait another xy months. Unfortunately you can't predict, when european customers will get their Axes. Hearing the Kemper from Clips and talking to hoss I decided to pre-order the Kemper - I hope I won't get disappointed, I will compare it to a friend's Axe 2 (which is great!!).

Customers in the USA (really nobody) knows when they'll be able to get a Kemper. I really hope for the sake of those who pre-ordered that it is released next month, there are plenty available so no one has to wait, and it is bug free. But that's a lot to hope for.

Originally Posted by Gasp100

Wish [the KPA] was still $1500-1600 but then again I wish the AxeFX II was still $2200...

It still is if you're on the list. Mine should arrive tomorrow and that's what I paid for it.

[Carol-AnnAmps]

Originally Posted by Scott Peterson

The Axe-FX II is easier by magnitudes to dial in. I'll demonstrate my process on a video... and you'll see, it's fast as any one can dial an amp.

You are ignoring some facts about me: A) I know what I need. I have a plan. I have a roadmap. I have a process; B) I simplify it down to brass tacks. The parameter 'paralysis' syndrome you describe isn't even remotely on my radar. My credo is: "...just because you can, does not mean you should"; and C) I know what I got when I got it. I don't spend time rethinking and worrying about what I have tonally. I trust my ears. If it works, it works. I've done well over 300+ shows with this rig - Standard/Ultra/II running direct to FOH. I've never once had to 'change anything between chords' that I could not do with the guitar's volume and/or my midi controller + expression pedals. If you need to 'tweak on the fly' and think you cannot do so without the front panel of the box... then you are not understanding (or) not using what can be done with a midi controller and expression pedals.

Every time I show someone in real life what I do, how I do it and so forth the comments are the same... "that's it?" and "..no way!!"

To do things in the FRFR world requires you to learn a different process that does not perhaps seem 'normal' or easy to someone coming from a traditional guitar rig, I agree with you. But I've been working this way for a number of years now, it's second nature to me... and many others. If you get hold of that concept, see what you can do and then do it... it makes traditional rigs look very limiting and boring over a three set gig. To each their own; just a different approach that can yield fantastic results and options either way if done right.

But... on the 'you can't dial up a preset in a few minutes.... I'll prove you wrong on this one.

There's having sex and there's watching porn Both can be fun.

In seriousness, I was just playing devils advocate. I totally support Cliff and his work 100%. He's good people and the best tones come from New Hampshire !!

[Carol-AnnAmps]

Originally Posted by OIO

Hi, i really think in modellers most of time goes matching the perfect cab to amp depending on your pickup. Got your core sound, the tweaking is to take it to perfection for you

It makes it seems that a good sound in AXe is a good balance of ALL parameters, wich i cant believe.

I learned how to build tube amps, so if im invited to a jam and wanna tweak the sound of a tube amp to my liking, should i bring a solder? a couple tubes? speakers? resistors and capacitors. Change some bias voltage, plate voltage on the fly?

the paramateres are all theres too

On the contrary if I jam on someone elses rig I just play and deal with whatever's given to me. The only problem I ever have if they hand me a guitar without fret markers on the board. Somehow I have a mental issue with that one. I certainly don't think about what I could do with the amp, I need a break from that when I'm not in the shop. I've become good at seperating work from playing, it would drive me nuts if I didn't.

[stratzrus]

Originally Posted by Carol-AnnAmps

On the contrary if I jam on someone elses rig I just play and deal with whatever's given to me. The only problem I ever have if they hand me a guitar without fret markers on the board. Somehow I have a mental issue with that one. I certainly don't think about what I could do with the amp, I need a break from that when I'm not in the shop. I've become good at seperating work from playing, it would drive me nuts if I didn't.

I think that's the key.

When most people, myself included, play a tube amp we accept it for what it is, make some minor adjustments to B/M/T and start playing.

With a modeler we tend to listen to it very critically to see if it sounds "right" and that's the first step in a compulsion to "fix" whatever we hear in the tone that we don't like.

This isn't exclusive to modelers though. Many discerning ears will send a boutique amp to someone like Scott Lerner to mod and dial in even though the amp cost them $3K or more, and I've heard that you can't get the most out of a Two Rock until you dial in the internal switches and or have some capacitor values changed. And after that, how much time is spend swapping NOS tubes in and out until you get just the right combination?

If people approached the Axe FX the way you approach an amp when you're just jamming (which is pretty much my approach) the compulsion to spend hours tweaking could be avoided. I like to dial in my presets but I do it over time little by little. Spending an hour tweaking a preset is not something I'm at all interested in.

[banjoze]

"If people approached the Axe FX the way you approach an amp when you're just jamming (which is pretty much my approach) the compulsion to spend hours tweaking could be avoided."

Devil's advocate position: If every tone that came out of [insert favorite modeler here] sounded like a real amp, then they probably would approach them the same. Unfortunately, this isn't usually true.

[stratzrus]

Originally Posted by banjoze

Devil's advocate position: If every tone that came out of [insert favorite modeler here] sounded like a real amp, then they probably would approach them the same. Unfortunately, this isn't usually true.

Agreed, but something that I think most people don't take into account is the amplification solution.

If I'd stuck with my SS rack amp and Celestions I don't think I ever would have gotten the tones I want no matter how much I tweaked.

With the right amp and cab, the need to compensate is dramatically reduced, particularly so with the Axe II according to reports.

With a FRFR system the selection of speaker IRs and mic placement becomes an issue, and with gen 1 units parametric EQ was needed before the v.11 firmware was released, but with a traditional amp and cab there's far less that you have to deal with.

If plug and play is a major concern, go Axe II and traditional amp and cab.

[ejecta]

Originally Posted by Carol-AnnAmps

There's having sex and there's watching porn Both can be fun.

Best post of the thread.

[Carol-AnnAmps]

Originally Posted by CrossHair

I think one is an example of how well it duplicates a real amp where the other is designed for listening pleasure; these clips should not be used to compare really.

It doesn't duplicate the SLO very well really from that clip. The warmth and width is totally missing and they are probably the most endearing aspects of playing an SLO.

[toasterdude]

Originally Posted by Carol-AnnAmps

It doesn't duplicate the SLO very well really from that clip. The warmth and width is totally missing and they are probably the most endearing aspects of playing an SLO.

The description of SLO from FAS "Keep the Master volume low (3.50). It's a very bright amp, keep Presence and Treble low".

Warmth is something I have had a hard time getting our of the Axe SLO. Bright it has in spades. If I try to get the B and E strings to not be so bright but fatter and rounder. . . .the low E gets muddy, woofy, and just sounds bad. I am sure it is my lack of getting the Axe fully, but I bet if I plugged into a SLO I could get a good tone in seconds. Especially if it had the Haynes mod.

[banjoze]

Well, as Scott predicted we have spun off course... (of course he helped so maybe a self-fulfilling kinda thing... lol)

Anyone care to submit more examples? I know where some pretty cool AC/DC samples are for AxeFX. Any of you Kemper guys wanna submit one for comparison?

[mattball826]

i love these debates. lol

so many on defense

is simple point. if you are experienced user you can dial in kemper or axe fx.
if you are new to teh boxes you will tweak them, spent tons of time on them learning them.

yes, i do and many others do have to tweak modelers at gigs. not during a song (even though you can a real amp), but maybe between songs/sets.

soundman may say your fx level too high. that is a tweak you have to change just same as you do on foot stomps. saying modelers make this easy on a novice is crazy.

it is the reasons like this along with many more in just picking an amplifier rig why many revert to playing real amps and stomp pedals again.

kemper hardware layout does look a bit easier from what i see. choose an fx block, adjust.

axe you have to go to edit layout, then move to the fx selection, then change the fx setting in the next set of pages and menus, press store, then enter.

[stratzrus]

Originally Posted by guitarnet70

Being this the Digital and Modeling gear section of the forum, I would bet quite a bit....let's make a poll

Good idea...why don't you start one?

Originally Posted by mattball826

i love these debates. lol

so many on defense

Well, many of us have been down this road before.

First it was the modelers are crap crowd. Then, when the 11 Rack came out, people were saying it was better than the Axe FX. Same thing happened with the HD500. Now it's the Kemper.

Since the Axe FX been the #1 modeler for so long it has been the #1 target for criticism and the debates rage on.

Don't worry about those who are playing defense...we're used to it.

Actually, I learn a lot from these discussions and think the Kemper is a wonderful development in guitar amplification. When they make one that's more user friendly for the gigging musician I'll definitely check one out.

[guitarnet70]

Originally Posted by stratzrus

Good idea...why don't you start one?

Already ongoing!

[Scott Peterson]

Originally Posted by mattball826

i love these debates. lol

so many on defense

is simple point. if you are experienced user you can dial in kemper or axe fx.
if you are new to teh boxes you will tweak them, spent tons of time on them learning them.

yes, i do and many others do have to tweak modelers at gigs. not during a song (even though you can a real amp), but maybe between songs/sets.

soundman may say your fx level too high. that is a tweak you have to change just same as you do on foot stomps. saying modelers make this easy on a novice is crazy.

it is the reasons like this along with many more in just picking an amplifier rig why many revert to playing real amps and stomp pedals again.

kemper hardware layout does look a bit easier from what i see. choose an fx block, adjust.

axe you have to go to edit layout, then move to the fx selection, then change the fx setting in the next set of pages and menus, press store, then enter.

Given your situation on a gig then: Axe-FX: Touch "Global" and then you can turn your effects and/or reverb down globally across all your presets. Done.



That doesn't seem very hard to me?? No menus. No 'choosing' the effect 'block' and turning down... so here, at least by your situation at minimum... not so difficult. Even a novice can do it.

If you want to use something as a criticism, might want to research it first.

[barhrecords]

From my gigging experience with analog rigs and modelers, each one has its pluses and minuses for making in song fixes.

It's just as difficult to debug a malfunction in a complex analog pedal board during a song as it is to nav modeler menus etc.

Depending on what is wrong, anything that has to be changed during the performance can have its own issues easy / hard... analog / modeler.

Richard