Are my needs to much for a band?

[stevel]

Let me start by saying, I'm not inflexible, and I'm willing to work with people, but I have some "needs" that I need fulfilled. To quote something, "I don't really think I'm asking for all that much am I?"

What do you think:

1. I want to gig 2 to 3 times a month.

2. I expect least 100 bucks per gig (I also expect to be see things moving in a direction that will ultimately net more).

3. If I'm asked to play 4 or 5 times a month, I need to make at least 150 per gig. Does this make sense? The more frequently I play, the more money I need to make per gig to offset my other commitments.

4. I will rehearse, once a week, if the other members show up with their material learned. Rehearsal is for rehearsing "the band", not for individual members to learn their parts.

Is this asking for too much?

Should I join bands that I know aren't going to uphold this - because my problem is, I can't find *anyone* who can do this. I mean, my options are to never gig, because apparently my standards are too high (are they?), or to gig crap gigs with people who think that "we have to make a name for ourself by playing as frequently as possible" - i.e. they want to play 4 nights a week, for 50 bucks a man - and they think by doing this, they're going to "move up" to better paying gigs just by virtue of "becoming known".

Don't get me wrong on that last statement - I know that name recognition is important, but the band actually has to be GOOD too ;-)

Steve

[greggorypeccary]

Are you asking too much? No. (except, maybe the more gigs, more $$/gig part.)

Are you likely to find that? No.


And where do these bands think they are going to get 4 gigs a week anyways?

[tiktok]

You will be sitting around a long time waiting to find a band that meets those criteria. Are they out there? Perhaps. Are they hiring? Seemingly not.

[Mark Barna]

No. 3 is the only unreasonable one. My band that I formed from scratch broke up in September. Over two years with the final line up we met all the other criteria.

You should also be willing to play freebies at high-profile events for band recognition. My former band got some decent PAYING gigs by doing that. It also keeps you sharp playing in front of a large crowd.

A red flag for me are guys who talk a lot about money. Invariably, their expectations are way out of proportion with reality. I had a lead singer quit because he wanted to make $1,000 per gig after I booked us a series of shows for $400 each. Bottom line: Almost none of us will ever do this as full-time occupation, so go out and have fun with a tight, well-rehearsed band. Let's face it, if you turn down that high-profile gig because you aren't making $100 a man, all you are likely to do is sit around the house watching TV or, at best, practicing.

Either you like to play or you don't. It's amazing how many players actually don't like to play and will bitch and moan that they have carry some gear up to the stage, or that drink aren't free. These usually are the people who don't book the gigs in the band (at least, that's been my experience). I draw the line when the band is being taken advantage of. But if not, play, play, play...or be relegated to playing in your basement (I don't mean you; I mean "you" generally).

[dmb70]

No 3 is unreasonable IMO.

My band comes pretty close to meeting your criteria, we play 1-2 times a month (which is all we want), rehearse once a week & net about $100.00 - $125.00 per person a gig.

[stevel]

You should also be willing to play freebies at high-profile events for band recognition. My former band got some decent PAYING gigs by doing that. It also keeps you sharp playing in front of a large crowd.

Of course. I have no problem with that, or "try us out and see if you like us" rates. But one time only for the latter.

A red flag for me are guys who talk a lot about money. Invariably, their expectations are way out of proportion with reality. I had a lead singer quit because he wanted to make $1,000 per gig after I booked us a series of shows for $400 each.

I don't think 100 bucks a gig is out of proportion. I've made as much as 300 per gig, but once in my life. 250 a handful of times, 200 often, 150 regularly.

Steve

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by stevel

2. I expect least 100 bucks per gig (I also expect to be see things moving in a direction that will ultimately net more).
Steve

Remember that expectations often cause our suffering. You can expect anything you like, but what happens if you don't get what you expect?

Do you not play if your monetary requirements are not met? If that's the case,... why do you play? If money is your sole concern, be prepared to spend a lot of time not gigging.

In my world, there are no absolutes. Some gigs pay well, some don't. It's up to you to decide what works for you on a case by case basis.

As a hired gun, I ask things like:

Who is the gig for?
What type of event is it?
What's the location?
Who's on the hit?
How far away is it?
Is there a dress code?
Is it a ticketed event?
Is there a cover charge?
Do we have to pay for parking?
Are dinner / food / drinks included?
What do I need to bring?
Is everyone getting the same bread for this jam?

You want $150 cool. No problem.

"The gig is from 10pm-2am two hours away and you have to drive yourself. You'll need a dark suit and tie and the event is $25 per ticket if you have anyone that wants to come with you. Sorry, no comps. I'm not sure if we get food or not, and you'll have to bring an amp with decent headroom because you'll be unmic'd. The horn section is going to eat up any spare channels that we might have had for you. See you there!..."

I think your focus on money isn't weighed against other very important factors. I'd turn down the above gig in a heartbeat to play a 9pm-12am gig locally with great players for $75-$100 instead.

[russ6100]

Well you're not near as demanding as I am....

I found a brown M&M in the dressing room once so I trashed the place and quit the band without notice...

[stevel]

Originally Posted by dmb70

No 3 is unreasonable IMO.

Ok, well there already seems to be a trend here.

Here's the problem:

If I say I can only play 3 times a month, everyone else says "yeah, us too" but what actually happens is a gig comes up and they take it. They take any gig that comes up. They're afraid to turn down a gig.

Another thing that always happens is another gig beyond the 3 comes up (for 50 a man of course) and "so and so *really* needs the money" - so I look like the bad guy because I won't play a gig and that's going to cause so and so to default on their mortgage, etc. etc. etc.

I felt like I was being "more flexible" if I say, I can only play 3 gigs a month, however, I'll be more than willing to play another gig IF it's a really good gig (better money, or better exposure).

Steve

[RocksOff]

OP: are you talking about a covers gig, or about original music?

[stevel]

Originally Posted by The Kid

If money is your sole concern, be prepared to spend a lot of time not gigging. In my world, there are no absolutes.

Well, here's the problem with that. Money is not my sole concern, but it is an over-riding consideration.

It's especially a concern because I have been making 150 a night gigging, and more on many occasions (like 40% of the gigs).

So $50 bucks a gig *is* a problem for me.

And I am prepared to not play all too often - once or twice a month is fine and dandy with me. But three times a month, with rehearsals every week, for 50 bucks a gig isn't cutting it.

Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by RocksOff

OP: are you talking about a covers gig, or about original music?

Covers of course. There's no money in originals

Steve

[DRS]

Become a good bassist in multiple styles from country to rock to blues/soul to pop.
Whore yourself out to everyone who needs a bassist.

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by stevel

Ok, well there already seems to be a trend here.

Here's the problem:

If I say I can only play 3 times a month, everyone else says "yeah, us too" but what actually happens is a gig comes up and they take it. They take any gig that comes up. They're afraid to turn down a gig.

Have a sub in place that can cover and do a good job. I do that often on both sides of that fence. Meaning: I have cats that cover for me and I do plenty of covering for them too. Go in with that clearly stated up front.

Another thing that always happens is another gig beyond the 3 comes up (for 50 a man of course) and "so and so *really* needs the money" - so I look like the bad guy because I won't play a gig and that's going to cause so and so to default on their mortgage, etc. etc. etc.

Not your problem. Have them use a sub, or go without you and split your share three ways!

I felt like I was being "more flexible" if I say, I can only play 3 gigs a month, however, I'll be more than willing to play another gig IF it's a really good gig (better money, or better exposure).

Nothing wrong with that. Your time is your time. If you're clear going into things, there really isn't anything to argue about.

Steve

Your time is your time. However, just as you have expectations, your band mates will too. That may lead to problems if you're not all clear about everything up front, don't have a sub that can cover for emergencies/conflicts, and appear inflexible.

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by stevel

Well, here's the problem with that. Money is not my sole concern, but it is an over-riding consideration.

Sure. I have a minimum too, but I will occasionally go below for a good gig or a worthy cause. I turn down plenty of gigs at and above my minimum that don't "work" for me.

I always recommend a couple of good players though when I can't/won't do a gig.

It's especially a concern because I have been making 150 a night gigging, and more on many occasions (like 40% of the gigs).

No problem with that.

So $50 bucks a gig *is* a problem for me.

Me too. Nobody said you had to say yes. Refer another player. That cat will appreciate it and remember your kindness.

And I am prepared to not play all too often - once or twice a month is fine and dandy with me. But three times a month, with rehearsals every week, for 50 bucks a gig isn't cutting it.

Do you really have to rehearse every week for a covers gig?
Steve

Like I said before... It's your time. Do what you want to do. Just remember that your band members will have a list of expectations of you.

I will say with respect that your post came off a bit entitled. As a band leader, that would make me look for alternatives first before I called you. Not that you said anything wrong per se'... it just came off as "off-putting" to me.

I never pay my guys less than $100 per man in town and I'm usually able to pay more. That said, I want people on the gig that come with a great vibe and a great attitude... players that want to be on the gig... and not because of the paycheck. Those are my "expectations" at $100 and up.

Most of my work is as a hired gun. I always try to be the person that I'd want to hire on my gig. It keeps me busy with a handful of great bands.

As a band leader I have a ton of people trying to get at me to put them on a gig that just want a paycheck. It's pretty obvious, and they do get a spot on the call list, albeit much further down.

Ya dig?