Dealing with an Ebay whackjob..... advice?

[sinasl1]

Hi guys,

ok so unfortunately, my GF was just trying to be helpful to a friend, and offered to sell a guitar for him. It was won in a contest and was brand new, and I mean it still had the plastic on the pickguard when it left us. The guy who we sold it for won it in a contest- and he does not play guitar. So there's no way this guitar had ANY playing wear, and I looked it over myself and packed it, and as far as I could see it was SPOTLESS.

It's one of those uber silly (IMHO) Gibson reverse flying V's. But whatever, it's a brand spankin new Gibson.

Now for the drama- the seller is claiming it had fret wear, scratches, gold hardware rubbing off, etc when he got it. Wants his money back. I told him no dice, the guitar was PERFECT upon leaving here, and that is our position. This guy is a REAL PITA- borderline internet-stalker-creepy. Crazy emails with terrible punctuation, etc- I'll post some of them in a minute here.... But I told him to go ahead and file a claim, and we will battle it out.

I should mention he got the guitar for $1000, which is hundreds less than I see used examples selling for. He got a great deal. I am VERY wary of this creep's intentions and motivations for wanting to return it. He at first asked for a 10% return or something like that because he felt we misrepresented it. I said p*&s off, file a claim, we'll see who wins. I think it's a simple case of he doesn't like it, either that or he's an ebayer that does this all the time, threatening to file claims etc if sellers don't refund some of the agreed upon price....

Here's a few pics, of the guitar, case, and documentation that came with it from the contest (no comments on how goofy it is, I already know):








So my question is- how do I properly defend myself with ebay/paypal against this nutjob, who is clearly trying to misrepresent the guitar...? Thanks in advance.....

[sinasl1]

I should mention my GF is a musician, artist, model, etc etc. So occasionally she will sell signed 8 by 10's etc on ebay. Once this guy figured out who she was, he started asking via email for free pictures, 8 by 10's, band memorabilia etc. And I mean like, getting creepy- "did you send my pictures?" Then later that day, another email ""did you send them yet?"

Eventually she just said dude, this is a business, I don't give this stuff away. At which point he starts getting pissy. Anyways, next he gets the guitar, can't figure out how to open the case (case lock was a typical 000 scenario that must have gotten turned when we packed the case)... so there's emails back and forth about that. And yet he's supposed to be some sort of collector... you think he'd know how to open a case...? Once he gets it open, then he starts with the "i want my money back" stuff.

Here is my correspondence with this guy, once I realized what she was dealing with, I took over the emails etc:

Sorry, but TGP does not allow the posting of personal correspondence. It has been removed.

So you guys can see what we are dealing with here.....

The auction clearly stated "no returns", so the only way this guy has a case is if he can somehow convince ebay that the guitar was not mint, as we stated, am I correct? I think it's fairly obvious from the pics that it's a brand new axe, the hardware is perfect and not corroded or whatever as he is stating, etc etc.

Thanks all, for any advice!

Pete

[evets618]

Keep all correspondence. What was your return policy as stated in the auction? This is very important.
Your best defense will consist of:
1) His trying to get a partial refund after delivery. Ebay actually dislikes this much more than someone who just wants to return an item. It's a shakedown, pure and simple.
2) Many clear photos showing the condition.
3) An accurate description.
4) A clearly stated return policy. No returns is perfectly OK, you just need to be clear about it.
You won't have to refund him until you re-gain possession, Paypal's not that bad (yet). Be sure to make him pay for insurance if he does get to send it back.
Sometimes, when they realize how much it's going to cost to return it, they back off.
I loathe these idiots, too.
Good luck!

[Scooter Burbank]

I know nothing about "collecting," but is "mint" the same thing as "brand new"? In other words, it seems to me that it's quite possible for something that's brand-spanking-new to not be "mint" in the eyes of a collector (I note that the buyer did make the following reference: "...like it just came from the factory").

[pfflam]

You should have him return it, after all, at least he has to pay for shipping and insurance and then you get the guitar back and can resell it.

Besides, I think he will balk once you get that far.

[Braciola]

Sorry you're going through this Pete.
It seems to me that this guy is just trying to squeeze an extra 10% out of you, and has probably done this before.
I suggest contacting ebay and ask if he has a record of doing this to other sellers.

I'll bet money that if you ask him to return the guitar to you, he'll probably change his tune (no pun intended)

Good Luck man!

[bsuite]

Unfortunately Pete, I think Ebay would side with the buyer, even though I think your description is accurate.

It really doesn't mean a thing to state "No returns" in your auction.

From my experience Ebay usually sides with the buyer when the buyer is not satisfied.


you "might" get lucky.

[DGTCrazy]

Pete,


I'm not sure you can defend yourself against a claim filed against your GF. As stand up as you're trying to be, she's the one that legally sold the guitar. It could complicate her case, especially if it looks like she's not the one handling things. But that's my 2 cents.

The issue comes down to her, as a Non Musician, and how she represented the instrument in the text of the Sales Information. It probably would have been better for you to assist with what she wrote, and her subsequent responses to the creep. I just don't think you have any legal standing in the matter, and it may affect her case. But i'm just guessing here. It's just that they protect the buyer too strongly.

Total drag you and your GF are having to deal with this, but this may go South if Ebay see's you're involved. I hope not.

Good luck!

[The Kid]

I hope that this works out for you.

[thewhit]

These kind of situations are definitely sticky and the bane of not meeting in person to haggle and come to an agreement on terms. I'm sure to some jerks, like this one, a guitar is not new or mint if anyone has even played it in a store. I'm also concerned that if you had him send it back, he may scratch the pickups or alter the guitar's condition to validate his assertions.

I think what you're experiencing Pete, is frustration over not seeing if this guitar will fit down this guy's esophagus. Having said that here's how I would handle it.

Talk to the guy whose guitar it is and get his input. He doesn't have to be a player to be practical. Depending on shipping costs, it may be best to chalk it up to experience but split the loss with the guitar's owner. You're being played but it could easily cost you more time, money and hassle than it's worth. We're talking $100 and bringing your blood to a boil, stressing out your girlfriend and hassling with Ebay/ Paypal, I don't think is worth it. You and your girlfriend know you're right and that's all that matters.

You have the facts on your side but I always think back to when I had a non- paying tenant in a rental home who was always late on the rent and also a very bad man. ( friend of ex- business partner.)

I went to an eviction specialist and was looking for a very delicate way to get the tenant to move and/or be served notice. The specialist, after much discussion said " pay the tenant one month's rent so he can go somewhere else and become someone else's problem." I was pissed but I took his advice and it worked out extremely well and I got a stable higher paying tenant to replace the jerk I previously had. It's difficult to know when to cut your losses but this could be one of those times.

Your guy worries me slightly, lack of spelling skills, ego and blind determination that he's right. Get rid of him and get $50 -$100 worth of satisfaction picturing him jumping on the stage and you giving him your best Keith Richard's imitation, with a lower bout to the cranium. Good Luck!

[Scott Miller]

I have nothing to add except that is one butt-ugly guitar.

[Dr Git]

Hey Pete. I feel for you. I sol an acoustic a few months ago. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Buyer says preamp doesn't work . So he tells me he wants to send it back. I say, no returns as posted and to get a qualified music store to vouch that the preamp is indeed bad. He then files a full out claim with ebay, and i lose the case. What case. Ebay doesn't care about sellers. Anyways the guitar gets to my house. Npthing wrong with it. I then resell it on ebay the following week. I then demand Ebay to cover my return shipping. Long story short, aside from the hassle, i made an additional $50 reselling and ebay vredited my account $45 for the return shipping i was out...cheers pete

[antojado]

Based on what I've read from other sellers it might be best for you to offer to take the guitar back if the buyer pays the shipping. If ebay gets involved then there's a good chance you'll lose, despite reality as we know it.

Another solution: a couple of autographed 8x10's might be a cheap way to buy happiness.

Best of luck.

[yetikeeper]

ok,

Lets assume for a moment that this guy is a genuine collector. An item sold as "new" does not mean totally flawless. I have bought many guitars over the years "new straight from factory" that have had dents, scratches, even missing parts.

A collector will look for the word "mint" in the description. "Mint" is generally accepted in collecting circles as "in pristine condition" - i.e flawless. It is completely different to "new". Having said that though, most collectors will email you and double check to make sure before paying. Because a lot of people use the word "mint" on ebay to mean "looks ok to me"

If you sell something as "MINT" and it has small scratches, a few dull patches, or sometimes even a small tear in the booklet that comes with it, a genuine collector might get a bit pi$$ed at you.

I dont know the law in the USA but in Europe all the rights are with the buyer. If they dont like it they can send it back and pay the postage costs. if it is damaged or not as described then the seller pays the postage.

As for this guy, it also worries me that people use "lack of spelling skills" as meaning he cant be a collector of guitars. Mr brother is dyslexic and if anybody ever questions his intellect based on his writing skills then i would wrap my £2000 Gibson around their heads. As for "blind determination" in thinking he is right - perhaps he genuinely feels you have misled him. As for getting photo's of your GF, people will do strange things when they think you are being the bad person, in order to get back at you.

Anyway, if you sold it as Mint, and you are totally 110% certain there wasnt a mark on it, then you know he is trying it on.
If you sold it as new and never mentioned the word "mint" even then the rights might be on the side of the buyer anyway (again in the US i dont know)

BUT, there is a lesson to be learned here. A note to all who are selling high value stuff on ebay (or other buyer not present portal) Photograph your stuff, back, front, close ups of everything. For the sake of 20 minutes you can cover yourself against this kind of claim.

I hope you get it all sorted out.

Good luck

[yetikeeper]

Also a legal note to all in addition. I have just spoken to the office of fair trading in the UK about ebay and internet selling. Nothing better to do whilst at work lol

In England (therefore I assume Europe), the sellers responsibility for the goods does not end when they have left your premises. You are responsible for them right up to delivery at the other end. So it is possible for something to leave you perfect and end up crap at the other end.