My "best" echo endeavor - Echoplex, DMM, Timefactor vs Timeline, etc.

[noah1i8]

I went through:
MXR Carbon Copy
'78 Deluxe Memory Man
Maestro EP-3 Echoplex
Strymon El Capistan
T-Rex Replica
Damage Control Timeline
Way Huge Aqua Puss
Eventide Timefactor

My favorite echo is the EP-3 Echoplex (one of which I own), however it is totally impractical to use regularly.
So, I've been looking for the next best thing (without going into racks). Additionally - lately I've decided that I need midi capability. This was not always the case, so that is why there are pedals without midi on here, but I don't plan to buy any more of them in the future... except an Echoczar if I can get my hands on one for a reasonable price!
I currently use the Eventide TimeFactor (v3 software)and it is fantastic.

The Timefactor is far superior to the Timeline, which gets infinite amount of praise on these forums as the forerunner of this duo. I feel the need to speak up! I did not like the Timeline's sound at all - very bright, even with the filter all the way up - I even preferred my T-Rex Replica over the Timeline. T-Rex and TimeFactor both sounded better A/B'd to TimeLine.

Up until the Eventide, the T-rex was the best sounding pedal I could find. The Timefactor was the only pedal that rivals, in fact surpassed, the T-Rex in delay quality - plus it has FAR more tone flexibility. Timefactor sounded better A/B'd to T-Rex (close call).

As for the DMM, it's cleans were very good (though a little harsh, noisy, and metallic, especially at high volumes), but it did not perform as well with OD. T-Rex sounded better A/B'd to DMM.

The Strymon El Capistan is another popular pedal. It was pretty good sounding, but there was an unpleasant aspect of the delay tone to my ears - digital and metallic. T-Rex sounded better A/B'd to El Cap.

The Carbon Copy was muddy, plus I didn't like the delay tone - hollowed out. DMM sounded better A/B'd to MXR.
Plus, the Eventide's software is updatable, which is an invaluable asset.

So I currently have the Timefactor, for all of my echoes, and the Way Huge Aqua Puss, for a short slapback, on my board... I guess JM has it right!


Pedals that I haven't tried (due to lack of good reviews/features/price), but we'll see!
Line6 DL4 (not for analog/tape seekers)
Boss DD-20 (no midi. Plus... it's a boss)
Strymon Timeline (heard it was pretty much the same as the DC, but Ill probably check it out)
Empress VMSD (no midi)
Toneczar Echoczar (price)
Diamond Memory Lane (no presets or midi)
Skreddy Echo (no presets or midi)
TC iB Nova (no midi)
Moog (no midi, price, reviews)
Cornish TES (no explanation required)

Thoughts? Always looking for the next best thing!

[standingzero]

How much time did you spend with the Timefactor and Timeline? I'm considering selling my M9 to aquire one of these... or at least get the audiophile mods done to the M9

[Hazelwould]

So you did or didn't try the timeline?

[Lolasaurus]

lol with the filter all the way up on the timeline your going for a high pass on each setting. no wonder you thought it was bright.

ps. but i gotta say, you sound either ridiculously rich or ridiculously lucky. congratulations on the echoplex
but you also reviewed the timeline and then latter said you never / will not bother trying it. and the toneczar is outstanding, and the empress and skreddy are not slighted in terms of praise as far as i can tell, and for good reason.

[IRG]

My thoughts are, your list of pedals you haven't tried - due to lack of reviews (really?) or features (which ones?) seems pretty long.

I like simpler pedals, so the Timefactor and Timeline weren't of that much interest to me. I acknowledge though, that they are at the top of the delay heap.

I've had many on this list, currently I'm using the new updated iB Modified Nova, and for me it's probably the best delay I've owned/used. For me, it has a great, easy to use feature set. Not overly complicated. I use it in stereo mode, which it seems like it was designed for. What I like about it though, is that it just sounds great. You can't tweak it an infinite amount, but I want to play guitar, not my delay pedal. But for what you do, it seems like you made the right choice.

[rolltide]

He tried the Damage Control Timeline, not the Strymon Timeline.

I have tried/owned most of the pedals you've tried except the El Cap and I've tried/owned everything in your "probably won't go through" list except the Echoczar and Skreddy Echo. There are a few more I've gone through that weren't on your lists. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not trying some of the pedals on that list, but it sounds like you found what you like in the Timefactor. I'm not saying to go out and buy those delays, but see if you can find a local shop/TGPer that will allow you to give them a test drive.

I find it odd that you tried a Carbon Copy, Aqua Puss and DMM, which are all simple delays, but won't try a Skreddy Echo. What about a Boss DM-2, Analogman AR20DL or Analogman ARDX20 with Amazeo?

You tried a Replica, but won't try a TC Nova. What about the Repeater? iB Nova?

The Strymon Timeline is different than the old one and will also be updateable, but I wouldn't write it off based on your experiences with the Damage Control.

The Empress is a fantastic sounding unit and I don't think it lacks features or good reviews. It's just a solid digital delay and the VMSD has a better, more authentic tape feature.

The Boss DD20 has great sounding delays. I think some of the settings were better than the Timefactor.

All that said, I had a Timefactor and loved it, but sold it because I only used two settings. If it works for you, then it works. I now have an Analogman AR20DL and an Ibanez Echomachine. My favorite delays were a Howard Davis modded DMM, a Boss DM2 and the Echomachine, which cost me all of $40 and is a sleeper tape echo pedal that's used in Nashville.

[Steve73]

Wow, the DC Timeline is brighter than a Timefactor? That's a first. I owned them both at the same time and the DC Timeline was the warmest digital delay I'd ever tried, possibly due to the 2 12ax7's on board. The Timefactor conversely has been the brightest (almost metallic) I've ever owned. Different strokes I guess!

The Strymon Timeline is a perfect blend between the DC Timeline and Timefactor for me. It can go as warm as the DC but also get the crisp digital delays of the Timefactor.

[PerFusionist]

Originally Posted by Lolasaurus

...the empress and skreddy are not slighted in terms of praise as far as i can tell, and for good reason.

Originally Posted by lovelife

I find it odd that you tried a Carbon Copy, Aqua Puss and DMM, which are all simple delays, but won't try a Skreddy Echo.

Agreed! The Skrecho is an amazing delay! Granted I haven't tried a boatload of delays like you have, but it does the tape/modulation thing beautifully without the negatives associated with other units (DMM included).

If you've already tried all of these other delays you should at least give it a shot, they're relatively cheap used right now too...

[mad dog]

That Skreddy Echo is a fine pedal. You're missing something I think.

It comes down to individual taste. My reference delay tone is a Roland Space Echo RE-201, but no intention to drag that one around. Tried many pedals, analog and digital. Found I much prefer analog voiced digital. In that crowd, current choice is the Catalinbread Montavillian. No need here for tap tempo or presets, and I can do without built in modulation. That makes choosing a lot easier.

MD

[Evansexcellent]

I was not a fan of timefactor. Hate the knobs. Sound was good. I like m9 a lot more. Not as much delay options but a killer quick and easy delay not to mention all the other effects. The Replica is ok. Way too much $$$ for what it is. Dd20 is a killer delay. Great sounds features. Good size. With it had more presets. Not a fan of dl4 cause of sound loss. Empress superdelay is rad but wish it had a screen. Not a fan of tc delays. But flashback is cool. My favorite delay is def Strymon Timeline. You can just get soo much out of it and the sounds are AWESOME.

[FAC]

Originally Posted by noah1i8

The Timefactor is far superior to the Timeline, which gets infinite amount of praise on these forums as the forerunner of this duo. I feel the need to speak up! I did not like the Timeline's sound at all - very bright, even with the filter all the way up - I even preferred my T-Rex Replica over the Timeline. T-Rex and TimeFactor both sounded better A/B'd to TimeLine.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? Yep: my DC Timeline is definitely not overly bright...I agree with a previous post that said it was one of the warmest digital delays. It is also one of the most intuitive to tweak vs. some of the other products out there.

I don't use it very often these days (it's HUGE and the magic eye is distracting...ended up putting tape over it), but I did not have the same experience as you.

Different strokes I guess, as noted, assuming the unit was working properly.

[noah1i8]

FYI, not trying to bash any pedals or anyone who uses them or likes them, just sharing my experiences so that hopefully others can benefit and maybe glean something they are looking for from it.

Originally Posted by standingzero

How much time did you spend with the Timefactor and Timeline? I'm considering selling my M9 to aquire one of these... or at least get the audiophile mods done to the M9

I spent a good amount of time playing with them, there was always just this harshness in the delays of the TL that I could not get rid of that really bothered me.

Originally Posted by Hazelwould

So you did or didn't try the timeline?

Damage control, not the strymon

Originally Posted by Lolasaurus

lol with the filter all the way up on the timeline your going for a high pass on each setting. no wonder you thought it was bright.

ps. but i gotta say, you sound either ridiculously rich or ridiculously lucky. congratulations on the echoplex
but you also reviewed the timeline and then latter said you never / will not bother trying it. and the toneczar is outstanding, and the empress and skreddy are not slighted in terms of praise as far as i can tell, and for good reason.

Lol I realize it is a high pass filter, I meant all the way up, as in unfiltered. The reason I probably wont get the echoczar is price, I know it's supposed to sound amazing. Plus it doesnt have midi. Empress is, again, lack of features.

Originally Posted by IRG

My thoughts are, your list of pedals you haven't tried - due to lack of reviews (really?) or features (which ones?) seems pretty long.

I've had many on this list, currently I'm using the new updated iB Modified Nova, and for me it's probably the best delay I've owned/used.

By lack of reviews, I meant lack of the type of reviews for the type of delay Im looking for. For example, there is obviously a plethora of reviews on the DL4, but they all pretty much say that if your looking for analog/tape feel, then it's not for you. Granted, Im sure some people will disagree with this - but you catch my drift.

Originally Posted by lovelife

I have tried/owned most of the pedals you've tried except the El Cap and I've tried/owned everything in your "probably won't go through" list except the Echoczar and Skreddy Echo. There are a few more I've gone through that weren't on your lists. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not trying some of the pedals on that list, but it sounds like you found what you like in the Timefactor. I'm not saying to go out and buy those delays, but see if you can find a local shop/TGPer that will allow you to give them a test drive.

I find it odd that you tried a Carbon Copy, Aqua Puss and DMM, which are all simple delays, but won't try a Skreddy Echo. What about a Boss DM-2, Analogman AR20DL or Analogman ARDX20 with Amazeo?

You tried a Replica, but won't try a TC Nova. What about the Repeater? iB Nova?

The Strymon Timeline is different than the old one and will also be updateable, but I wouldn't write it off based on your experiences with the Damage Control.

The Empress is a fantastic sounding unit and I don't think it lacks features or good reviews. It's just a solid digital delay and the VMSD has a better, more authentic tape feature.

The Boss DD20 has great sounding delays. I think some of the settings were better than the Timefactor.

All that said, I had a Timefactor and loved it, but sold it because I only used two settings. If it works for you, then it works. I now have an Analogman AR20DL and an Ibanez Echomachine. My favorite delays were a Howard Davis modded DMM, a Boss DM2 and the Echomachine, which cost me all of $40 and is a sleeper tape echo pedal that's used in Nashville.

Thanks for the reply, the reason I probably wont get the skreddy, tc, echoczar, etc. is because I want midi preset features. I bought the CC, TRex, dmm, etc. before I realized this. And the Aqua Puss is just for a bit of fattening, ala JM, and I really dig it.
Ive been deciding whether or not to try a vmsd or not lately, it's just that midi capability makes my life waaay easier since I use my delay in the loop and just leave on top of the amp in order to avoid long cable runs.
As for the boss... I know I shouldn't discount it because of the namebrand, but I do admittedly have a predisposition against it. Ill have to try it though...
I had heard that the Damage Control and the Strymon are pretty much identical, Ill have to try it also then...

Originally Posted by Steve73

Wow, the DC Timeline is brighter than a Timefactor? That's a first. I owned them both at the same time and the DC Timeline was the warmest digital delay I'd ever tried, possibly due to the 2 12ax7's on board. The Timefactor conversely has been the brightest (almost metallic) I've ever owned. Different strokes I guess!

The Strymon Timeline is a perfect blend between the DC Timeline and Timefactor for me. It can go as warm as the DC but also get the crisp digital delays of the Timefactor.

It also depends on what setting/software your TF has. I know v3 was supposed to widen the sweep of the filter considerably. Also, if you use the vintage delay, its a high pass filter (like the DC TL) but on the tape delay setting, it's low pass and you can get super dark echoes.

Originally Posted by PerFusionist

Agreed! The Skrecho is an amazing delay! Granted I haven't tried a boatload of delays like you have, but it does the tape/modulation thing beautifully without the negatives associated with other units (DMM included).

If you've already tried all of these other delays you should at least give it a shot, they're relatively cheap used right now too...

Originally Posted by mad dog

That Skreddy Echo is a fine pedal. You're missing something I think.

MD

Again, presets/midi

[orogeny]

i love threads like this.

it continues to remind me that we all have different ears and different needs.

i, for one, dumped the timeFACTOR for the boss dd20 because of my ears. the timefactor simply lacked the warmth the dd20 offered. however, that doesn't meet the OP's needs for midi. . .

i also have and love the DMM. nearly untouchable. .. . but it can have issues with higher gain. . . . .

. . . nothing 'copped' the DMM closer than the dd20, believe it or not, with a multi-preset dealy.

. . . until the strymon timeline. . . .

. . .which has ended my search, and which . . . .doesn't totally meet my needs. . . YET. . but WILL. . .

again, great thread. i think others who are in the OP's boat will find it exceptionally useful. i have actually found it useful as well. . .

[Shiny McShine]

Keep this thread alive. I've recently realized I'm a delay nut and want one that rivals my DD-2, Quicksilver, and TTE with the addition of presets, tap-tempo, and midi control.

[noah1i8]

Originally Posted by orogeny

i, for one, dumped the timeFACTOR for the boss dd20 because of my ears. the timefactor simply lacked the warmth the dd20 offered. however, that doesn't meet the OP's needs for midi. . .
i also have and love the DMM. nearly untouchable. .. . but it can have issues with higher gain. . . . .
. . . nothing 'copped' the DMM closer than the dd20, believe it or not, with a multi-preset dealy.
. . . until the strymon timeline. . . .
. . .which has ended my search, and which . . . .doesn't totally meet my needs. . . YET. . but WILL. . .

again, great thread. i think others who are in the OP's boat will find it exceptionally useful. i have actually found it useful as well. . .

Wow I guess I really do have to grab a Strymon Timeline. I ignored it because of my experience with the DC and the Capistan, but with more tweakables and processing power, respectively, it's worth a try I guess! Hopefully the 2nd hand prices are getting a little less ridiculous...

Oh, and I was under the impression that the dd20 had midi lol. Thanks for that!