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  1. JonR

    Any tips for bebop ear training?

    Following on from my tip, then, sing or hum the head to yourself through the solos! ;)
  2. JonR

    Any tips for bebop ear training?

    Learn the tunes. It ought to go without saying, but you really must learn the heads thoroughly. Jazz musicians generally don't solo on any tune they haven't spent hours (or days) familiarizing themselves with. Ideally you should know the melody by heart, as well as knowing the chord sequence...
  3. JonR

    Please help understanding of Lydian Dominant/Altered Scale

    One thing it seems no one has quite mentioned yet - although some have got close - is the whole reason for these scales in the first place. Firstly, you could argue that the scales don't really exist, in one sense. They are sets of notes that theorists have collected - like natural scientists...
  4. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Yes, you probably would. :)
  5. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Yawn. Sadly, we can no longer hear that music the way it would have been heard in Wagner's day. Now it just sounds like some dramatic film music. I mean, very good film music, but still no more than that. It really seems to need images with it, and they would be very predictable ones, about...
  6. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    I hate to come between you guys when you're getting on so well.... Is that really what he is saying? The trouble is, it's all subjective. That doesn't mean it's not an aspect worth talking about - or even subjecting to academic study - but one of the best things about music theory as a...
  7. JonR

    EVH - He didn't know theory?

    If you know where to look.... In any case, knowing stuff doesn't stop you wanting to debate it... ;)
  8. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    :) - well not exactly. You don't have to invoke a "higher power" or anything mystical. But fair point about the video. It's still focused on elements which can be notated. And that would have been OK if it wasn't entirely a critique of this research which doesn't seem to have come to any...
  9. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Yes - there's an important distinction here between "theory as a tool for the working musician", and "theory as a subject for academic study". I'd totally agree with you that the importance of the first is often highly exaggerated. At least, working musicians don't need to understand theory...
  10. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Timbre (vocals as well as instruments), studio effects, swing feel (if used), precise dynamic levels, microtonal variation (if used, which it often is in vocals anyway), stereo space ... etc etc..... Obviously all those things (or most of them...) can be indicated on the notation in writing...
  11. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Well said! :) Doesn't mean theoretical analysis is a waste of time. It just means that any theoretical analysis worth doing has to consider every aspect of a song - everything that can be heard on a recording, not just the elements that can be notated. That's why classical functional analysis...
  12. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Whoah, I smell snobbery. I mean, let's leave "goose step" out of this, shall we? (Not a musical genre I'm familiar with...) You're making two contentious claims anyway. Firstly that their methods are "naive" (and that naivete is a bad thing), and second that those "methods" are "trying to...
  13. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    You're right, you're not missing out on anything important. If you want more meaty and reliable stuff on rock harmony (and its deviations from classical/jazz practice), my recommendations are: https://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.04.10.4/mto.04.10.4.w_everett.html...
  14. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Absolutely not how I read it at all. He comes across like a fan of rock - among other kinds of non-classical music - who was classically trained; his problem being maybe a hang-up over that classical training. He thinks that maybe his viewers will also be suffering from a similar hang-up...
  15. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    Personally I had no problem with this video - at least to start with. I thought it was all good stuff (even though I knew it all already) up to 4:40, where he talks about the choice of bVII-I to stand for rock cadences. I particularly liked the observation that "if rock does have a distinct...
  16. JonR

    Why Classical Harmony Doesn't Work Anymore........

    But it isn't, this is the point. I know you know you're exaggerating, but 12tone is not saying it's "nowhere" anyway. Quote: "In a lot of styles of modern music, the authentic cadence is nowhere to be found." My emphasis. Personally I might have removed the words "styles of", to be safer...
  17. JonR

    Natural talent

    Correct. I do. That's an "idea", a "belief" not a fact. It's a belief anyone is welcome to hold, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I.e, the "problem" I have with it is its superstitious flavour, its deliberate ignorance of science. (Science might well -eventually - support it as a...
  18. JonR

    Natural talent

    Yes, because our culture has established this bizarre veneration of "genius" - largely as a result of the Romantic movement of the 19th century. It's the basis of what we call celebrity culture today, the star system, why we feel we need these "magically gifted" figures to look up to. It may...
  19. JonR

    Natural talent

    Right. And I have read arguments about musical skill being important for sexual selection, as a sign maybe of sensitivity, intelligence, mental health and so on. But many "non-practical" skills could also perform that role, and that doesn't support the notion of only a small minority being...
  20. JonR

    Anything wrong with not playing over changes or targeting chord tones?

    Reminds me of a time at a jazz summer school, when I signed up for what was advertised as an "advanced theory class". The two-hour session began with the tutor playing a bebop lick on sax - around 3-4 bars long, all 8th notes. "OK" he said, "now play that back to me." We all looked at each...
  21. JonR

    Natural talent

    The question is what does "Natural Talent" mean? What does it consist of, and how does it arise? Obviously - just to repeat yet again - there are people who learn faster, and also seem to have more creative imagination. No one is denying that. It's equally obvious that that ability is not...
  22. JonR

    Natural talent

    :facepalm
  23. JonR

    Anything wrong with not playing over changes or targeting chord tones?

    Well, I think BluesForDan's comment was semi-humorous, but anyway... I just meant that vintagelove had said that exact same thing you said, so I though I'd point that out while adding the earlier response. I agree fully with the rest of your comment, so I guess I just didn't like something...
  24. JonR

    Anything wrong with not playing over changes or targeting chord tones?

    https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/anything-wrong-with-not-playing-over-changes-or-targeting-chord-tones.2195749/#post-31373717
  25. JonR

    Anything wrong with not playing over changes or targeting chord tones?

    It all depends on what kind of music you're playing. In blues there is no need at all to hit chord tones, unless you want to. That's because blues is essentially a modal folk music based on a scale in the first place (you know that scale...;)), and the chords were grafted on by some arrangers...
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