112's-- avatar vs. bogner

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by tone slave, Oct 13, 2005.


  1. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    i find myself needing a 112 cab for my ecstacy classic, and although i'd love to just go ahead and get the bogner cube, i really can't justify spending that much more money right now unless there is a pretty big difference in tone. i'm planning on using one of the new eminence red ryder speakers.

    does anyone have any experience a/b-ing these two cabs?
     
  2. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
  3. g-nem

    g-nem Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Excellent question- I am looking for a closed back 112 myself right now, and as good as the bogner is supposed to be it is pricey. The avatar seems pretty good, but are there other options?
     
  4. axelicker

    axelicker Member

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    to the left
    I have an Avatar with a Governor in it as well as a Cube. With my EL34 amps the cube sounds great- it has a sound that is both organic and big, a little woody and vintage, yet it still rocks. On the other hand it's not my top choice for metal, which is half of what I play. The Avatar I've tried with a CL80, H80, and Governor. It can handle loud volume but is a little boxy sounding and I always find myself reaching for the tone knobs. Bottom line, it's a solid cab and I've always been able to find an EQ adjustment that made my ears happy. But if I was going to mic the cab, I'd go for the cube; it's true what they say, it mic's well. If I wanted a smooth lead tone, I'd go for the cube. If I was playing in crappy clubs I'd get the Avatar, it's good enough and perhaps more versatile depending on choice of speaker.


    If needed for a home studio, I wouldn't fret the price-- if you consider the fact that you could "rent" the Bogner for free via ebay for a year (barely lose any on a resale - just keep it covered when moving it and don't set your beer on it!). Can't tell you how many amps I've done that with :cool:
     
  5. Mastervolume

    Mastervolume Member

    Messages:
    2,096
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Get the CAE cab. Same cab as the bogner 200ish cheaper.
     
  6. g-nem

    g-nem Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I'll have to check the CAE cab- where can you buy them? (Anyplace in los angeles I can check one out?)
     
  7. gulliver

    gulliver Member

    Messages:
    5,931
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Get a cabinet built that is half the volume of the Bogner oversized sealed 2x12, but the same depth ... dimensions on website. The larger cabinet in this clip is of that size and you can hear the difference of it and a smaller cabinet ... with the exact same speaker exchanged. Volume (& depth) = good, up to a point. Brand name = nothing, it's just plywood IMHO.
     
  8. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    damnit! that's what i was afraid of. thanks for the info, though. looks like i have to start saving up for the bogner.
     
  9. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    exactly the same? same dimensions, materials, and methods of construction? is it available with a wheat grillcloth?
     
  10. jharpersj

    jharpersj Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Mass.
    I have a egnater oversize 1-12 I would seel for $400, 16 ohm vintage, sounds huge it looks like the on on the site $600 new and its mint


    http://www.egnater.com/
     
  11. Beer

    Beer Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Westbrook, CT
    Never really liked my Bogner Cube 1x12 cab. Could have been that a.) I'm rarely happy with 1x12's anyway, prefer something with more than one speaker almost always and b.) it had a Vintage 30 speaker in it which, I've found, is particularly not so great sounding by itself. I also didn't like the dimensions of it because I wanted to put the Bogner head on top of it. I thought that having two of these cabs would be cool to use in the stereo part of a wet/dry setup, so I measured my cab thoroughly before I sold it and drew it up (I'm a draftsman) so I could possibly build a couple of them in the future. I most often use a Bogner 4x12 slant with V30's for gigs and just suffer through the load/unload portion of the night. IMO, it just doesn't get better than using an actual 4x12.

    Note, I've been impressed with all of Jenkins' cabs (own both a Hwy 61 2x12 and the regular 2x12 and have heard a few of his 1x12 cabs via Matt McCloskey and friends) AND I believe his 1x12 is wide enough for the XTC to sit on correctly.
     
  12. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    care to share those dimensions with me? including the size/placement of the ports and any other details that i should know if i'm having someone build one for me? is it front loaded or rear loaded?
     
  13. Beer

    Beer Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Westbrook, CT
    I don't want to offend the great company that is Bogner by posting the actual drawing on the net, might seem unfair to them or something, but I'll gladly give the dimensions you asked for:

    The speaker was front mounted on a 5/8" baffle. There are two 3" diameter ports located 12" apart (measured center to center) and 4.5" below the 10.75" diameter hole for the speaker* (again, measured center to center). The ports have "tubes" in them with a wall thickness of 1/8" and depth beyond the baffle of 2.5". I can't recall what these tubes were made of but they seemed more like a fiber material than a PVC material. It seems to me that an enterprising person could easily experiment with these tubes to further "tune" their cab to their liking, maybe compensate for speaker type and volume level range used as I'd venture to guess that Bogner tuned them to be a good overall compromise for various speakers and volume levels.

    One aspect that suprised me when messing with this cab was the importance of the grill cloth (which is stapled on a frame and velcroed in place). It attenuates quite a bit of the high end sizzle and when removed made the Vintage 30 (which already has a bit too much top end sizzle for my tastes) sound like amplified bacon.

    I just won four G12H30's off Ebay from Avatar and plan to put them in an empty Marshall JCM900 straight cab I've had forever. I bought that cab for $100 a couple of years ago and sold the 75's to a friend who had blown some speakers in his studio while I was there (it wasn't my fault, but I sold them to him really cheap because I felt bad it happened during my session, plus I really did not like those 75's at all). Ill probably swap out two V30's from my Bogner slant cab to make a cross pattern in both cabs. I really like the G12H30's I've had in my Jenkins Hwy 61 cab for quite awhile. For my tastes, this is the speaker that is "just right" for some breakup but not excessive or distracting characteristics. I think it's really amazing how changing speakers will change the sound so much or at least my perception of it. Matt McCloskey (who is on this board and I am dropping his name because I am stalking him by being here) and I had a mini amp shootout two years ago and tried a bunch of different speakers with our Bogners and other amps and experimented with a bunch of different cab and speaker combinations. The G12H30's won that day as I recall.
     
  14. ultrevex

    ultrevex Member

    Messages:
    914
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    Lilburn, GA
    I cant comment on the Bogner or Avatar cabs but I can say that the Mojotone 1X12 is an exceptional sounding cabinet, very well built and super inexpensive. It's very large for a 1X12 ( something like 26 inches wide, 12 deep and 21 tall) made of birch ply with a relatively thin baffle. It comes the closest to the tone of a 2X12 of any single speaker cab I've ever heard. Really full bass in the stock open back configuration... they'll also make it closed back for you. I own 2 of them and they sound great with every speaker and amp I've tried. I run a Weber C1230-55 in one and get really fat rock tones from it. Great cabinet, $200 direct from Mojotone.
     
  15. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    thanks for the specs. i certainly don't want to rip off bogner, and i doubt that any cab i build is going to come close to the bogner anyway. but if i end up building one myself i just want some idea how to build a good one.

    i totally agree with you on the G12H's by the way. i have 4 of them in my bogner 412 and to me they're the perfect speaker. i'd love to hear the new celestion heritage G12H's.
     
  16. tone slave

    tone slave Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    thanks everyone for all the suggestions. i definately will look into the CAE, jenkins, and mojotone cabs before i make up my mind.
     
  17. Mastervolume

    Mastervolume Member

    Messages:
    2,096
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    yes the CAE is identical to the bogner
     
  18. Beer

    Beer Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Westbrook, CT
  19. e-z

    e-z Member

    Messages:
    1,696
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Location:
    SoCal
    I believe they are in the valley. The number on their website is 818 763 8898.
     

Share This Page