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12" Spkr for Demeter Isocab: Recommendations?

neve1073

Member
Messages
199
I need a 16 ohm spkr for a demeter iso cabinet. We will be using it with either a Vox AC30 or a Marshall JMP...sometimes with a power brake, so will need something rated for higher watts and something with a "british" vibe. (Last time I used this cab I was putting vintage 30s in it and blew at least two.)

Recommendations welcome!

And, no, it's not always possible to turn the '65 top boost with bulldogs on 10. :mad:
 
Messages
2,916
I've used Classic Lead 80 in there, as well as Fane AXA12, as well as some lesser stuff.

Different speakers don't sound as different as they should in the iso cab - to my ear - the iso cab contributes a lot of the tone to the speaker.
 

Orren

Member
Messages
1,142
riverastoasters said:
I've used Classic Lead 80 in there, as well as Fane AXA12, as well as some lesser stuff.

Different speakers don't sound as different as they should in the iso cab - to my ear - the iso cab contributes a lot of the tone to the speaker.
Sadly, I would agree with this.

I'm still playing with mine, but dialing out the boominess is lots of work, regardless of the speaker...

Orren
 

js54

Member
Messages
327
Orren said:
Sadly, I would agree with this.

I'm still playing with mine, but dialing out the boominess is lots of work, regardless of the speaker...

Orren
I've been messing with my Demeter Iso cab and have used the following speakers:
Vintage 30, G12H30 and Greenback. I can hear differences, but no matter what I get resonances/buzzes/wierdness, etc. on certain low notes - anyone else experience this? Advice?
 
Messages
2,916
js54 said:
I've been messing with my Demeter Iso cab and have used the following speakers:
Vintage 30, G12H30 and Greenback. I can hear differences, but no matter what I get resonances/buzzes/wierdness, etc. on certain low notes - anyone else experience this? Advice?
I would think everyone gets this. It's due to the smallness of the box. What are you going to do? About four years ago I had these guys construct an iso box big enough to easily fit a Mesa Recto 412, and enough isolation to get 60dB of attenuation. I figure a nice 112 or 212 will actually be OK in there. Trouble is the thing weighs 500 pounds and I haven't figured out how to uncrate it and get it to where I can use it yet. The guys that built it told me it would be in two easy to handle 120 pound sections....

But that's the deal with the small volume. You WILL get resonance and anti-resonance effects from the box and they will be there no matter what speaker you put in it.

Theoretically, you could get all excited and build a carefully vented and trapped box-within-a-box iso cab.

Anyone ever try running the line out from a dummy load into a high quality speaker simulator? Or maybe into the effects return of a modeling amp?
 

js54

Member
Messages
327
riverastoasters said:
I would think everyone gets this. It's due to the smallness of the box. What are you going to do? About four years ago I had these guys construct an iso box big enough to easily fit a Mesa Recto 412, and enough isolation to get 60dB of attenuation. I figure a nice 112 or 212 will actually be OK in there. Trouble is the thing weighs 500 pounds and I haven't figured out how to uncrate it and get it to where I can use it yet. The guys that built it told me it would be in two easy to handle 120 pound sections....

But that's the deal with the small volume. You WILL get resonance and anti-resonance effects from the box and they will be there no matter what speaker you put in it.

Theoretically, you could get all excited and build a carefully vented and trapped box-within-a-box iso cab.

Anyone ever try running the line out from a dummy load into a high quality speaker simulator? Or maybe into the effects return of a modeling amp?
I hear ya - its part of the compromise. I tried POD, Guitar Rig (Demo version) and Amplitube LE and while they were ok at certain things, I still couldn't get the depth and realism of the iso box. As nice as Gutiar Rig was, it still had that digital-ness to it. Granted I was just using my MBox and not a high impedance DI.

I would like to hear the clips of a real amp going DI into the speaker sim of GR or another similar software program.

***
But getting back to Neve1073's query - the V30 would be the highest watt speaker I've used to date, its nice but I like the tone of the G12H30 the best, and that will most likely be underpowered for your needs. Also, I've heard great things about the Eminence Red Coats, they have some some 75w, 120w and 150w rated sepakers (there has been much posted here good and bad about these speakers).
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,405
js54 said:
I hear ya - its part of the compromise. I tried POD, Guitar Rig (Demo version) and Amplitube LE and while they were ok at certain things, I still couldn't get the depth and realism of the iso box. As nice as Gutiar Rig was, it still had that digital-ness to it. Granted I was just using my MBox and not a high impedance DI.

I would like to hear the clips of a real amp going DI into the speaker sim of GR or another similar software program.

***
But getting back to Neve1073's query - the V30 would be the highest watt speaker I've used to date, its nice but I like the tone of the G12H30 the best, and that will most likely be underpowered for your needs. Also, I've heard great things about the Eminence Red Coats, they have some some 75w, 120w and 150w rated sepakers (there has been much posted here good and bad about these speakers).
Here ya go...
http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/brush.mp3

That said I have no problem hearing a difference between speakers in the iso cab.
 

Riscchip

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,047
I used a G12H30 in my Demeter, if I remember correctly, after trying a V30, greenback, a Weber speaker (forget which). I'm now using the Randall Isolation cabinet with a single Eminence Red Fang + attenuator. As far as getting a more natural sound goes, I've had better luck with condensor mics (using an AKG C3000B). I go from mic to mic preamp, to an EQ which is critical go getting it to sound closer to the way it sounds out loud, I find.

I'm with Ed. I can hear huge differences between speakers with iso cabs.

YMMV, of course.
 
Messages
2,916
Ed DeGenaro said:
That said I have no problem hearing a difference between speakers in the iso cab.
Yeah you can hear A difference. But can't you still hear the effect of the iso box?

Or, if you don't hear an effect of the iso box, what iso box are you using? How big is it? I ultimately ended up with a "whisper room" which is 5'x7'x7' and that works pretty well.

But if you have something small that doesn't have that boxy sound tell us what it is!
 

js54

Member
Messages
327
Ed DeGenaro said:
Here ya go...
http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/brush.mp3

That said I have no problem hearing a difference between speakers in the iso cab.
Ed,

If that's not the real Jeff Beck track (its been so long since I've heard it), that sounds pretty damn good!!!

What's the setup you use for your demeter iso-box tracks?

How do you deal with the buzz/resonances from low notes and chords?
EQ, mic type, speaker type?..? Attenuator?
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,405
js54 said:
Ed,

If that's not the real Jeff Beck track (its been so long since I've heard it), that sounds pretty damn good!!!

What's the setup you use for your demeter iso-box tracks?

How do you deal with the buzz/resonances from low notes and chords?
EQ, mic type, speaker type?..? Attenuator?
Unless I played on the "real" JB track it isn't.
This was DI...
Amp (Bassman) into a Hot Plate-line out into the computer.
Speaker sim is Waves Q-clone. The preset is a clone of my iso/v30 sm57 set-up.

How do i deal with the boxyness and resonance? I don't worry about it.
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,405
riverastoasters said:
Yeah you can hear A difference. But can't you still hear the effect of the iso box?

Or, if you don't hear an effect of the iso box, what iso box are you using? How big is it? I ultimately ended up with a "whisper room" which is 5'x7'x7' and that works pretty well.

But if you have something small that doesn't have that boxy sound tell us what it is!
Demeter iso cabs...
A difference? Yeah, just like I hear the diference plus the enclosures effect on my ported cabs or my closed back cabs.
 

neve1073

Member
Messages
199
Thanks for all your replies. I just ordered an eminence red coat governor. Will let you know how it works for me.

I haven't actually used the isocab since 1994 when I was working a on cd where we had to do all the guitar overdubs at home in our adat studio. Not ideal, but it worked.

I'm thinking one of my main concerns with the isocab now is spl on the mic. The only mic i'd want to put in there is a 57 or a 421....and by far and a away my favorite guitar cab mics are ribbons--especially the 121. But we have to work with the limitations we are dealt.

Thanks.
 

The Whiz

Member
Messages
5,917
I've got a Randall Isolation Cabinet with a Vintage 30. I'm not really a fan of the Vintage 30, it's kind of sterile sounding with my amps IMO. I'm probably going to drop one of my Weber Alnico Blue Dogs in it. Kind of funny dropping a nice speaker like that into a cab I paid about $200 for, but what the hell. It's a great way to bring down the volume at home (and still get a speaker that's working hard mic'd).

taco
 




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