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1959 - 1960 : Which album was the ultimate groundbreaker in Jazz - Poll

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by el greco, Feb 10, 2019.

Which album was the most important in introducing new forms in Jazz?

  1. Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue

    73 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. John Coltrane - Giant Steps

    17 vote(s)
    13.5%
  3. Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out

    19 vote(s)
    15.1%
  4. Bill Evans Trio - Portrait In Jazz

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  5. Ornette Coleman - The Shape Of Jazz To Come

    12 vote(s)
    9.5%
  6. Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um

    3 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. Duke Ellington - Anatomy Of A Murder

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Miles Davis - Sketches Of Spain

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  1. el greco

    el greco Member

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    Bill Evans and The Bill Evans Trio deserve a special mention. I don't think there is a jazz pianist alive who hasn't been influenced by the great Bill Evans. That album (Portrait In Jazz) is pure magic. The connection and the insight between the three musicians is unimaginable! Wizardry! The epitome of a tremendous jazz piano trio.
    The remarkable way that Bill Evans, Scott LaFaro, and Paul Motian played off each other was groundbreaking in its own phenomenal way.
     
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  2. marvin cobain

    marvin cobain Member

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    yes I agree with that. I don't know if he really was the first to use african and mid-eastern influences in his music (right now I can think of those Juan Tizol tunes for the Ellington orchestra like Caravan, Bakiff or Pyramid, or that other masterpiece that is Clifford Brown's Delilah, or the AfroCuban jazz suites made by Chico O'Farrill, especially the second one, or even Buddy Collette that to my ears sounds a lot like Sun Ra on certain tunes like Jungle pipe) but certainly his music had so much personality and originality that he was definitely something else (and I absolutely agree about the spirituality and mysticism his music had from the beginning). He was also using electric bass and keyboards in the fifties, making some of his stuff sounding more as jazz fusion of the seventies than the music of that era.
     
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  3. Oriondk

    Oriondk Member

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    Really like these videos. Why have I never heard of Lenny Tristano? Really interesting music. Me like. Do you know who the guitarist was on the first of his videos?
     
  4. marvin cobain

    marvin cobain Member

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    Tristano is a sort of cult figure, one of those "ultimate jazz gurus", a bit like Dennis Sandole, not very well known by the public but who was extremely respected and influential on other musicians (Charlie Parker loved him for instance). He was very ahead of his time in many ways (for instance talking of manipulating rhythm, check out this, that to me is more bold than a simple odd signature



    The guitarist was Billy Bauer, who was one of his pupils, and who's another underrated musician... I suspect he could even be considered the most harmonically advanced guitarist of his time.
    A curiosity about Tristano is that he was the teacher of another guitarist, who became much more famous than him... Joe Satriani. Satriani talked about how difficult the lessons were with Tristano, something like that if he would have played even a single wrong note the lesson was over.
     
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  5. Oriondk

    Oriondk Member

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    I found an album of Bauer in iTunes. Must get. I’ll look for Tristano, too.
     
  6. marvin cobain

    marvin cobain Member

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    check out also the stuff he did with Lee Konitz (another pupil of Tristano).





    (I know this isn't stuff for everybody, it's very cerebral music. You know the definition "cool jazz"... this.)
     
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  7. Digidog

    Digidog Member

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    From my point of view, musically speaking Brubeck was more of a ground breaker than Miles. Brubeck broke the common meter wall with music in odd meters and new harmonic rhythms that led to breaking up the traditional rhythms of progressions. Brubeck's music was structurally new, in a way that "Kind of Blue" wasn't.

    However much buzz it made, and however important it is, "Kind of Blue" is in many ways following a by then established tradition, which I don't think Brubeck's music did.
     
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  8. Digidog

    Digidog Member

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    In my opinion Brubeck opened the way for one of my absolute favourites. He began to come around in 1959, but was still not a solo artist:

     
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  9. Ps28

    Ps28 Member

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    Ornette Coleman was my favorite.
     
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  10. marvin cobain

    marvin cobain Member

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    What's an harmonic rhythm?
    Personally I don't see the use of a odd meter even remotely close as importance or groundbreaking as the use of modality or free jazz. Modality changed completely the way the improvisers could work. Odd signatures (not introduced by Brubeck) didn't have a deep effect like that. And it must be said also that on a simple 4/4 the musicians were able to make the most incredible things. Just look how Max Roach was playing on Un poco Loco with Bud Powell for instance.
     
  11. Digidog

    Digidog Member

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    When you harmonize a lead line in a meter, the chording is placed so the changes follow the meter. You can have a chordal progression, but how that progression is placed in the meter is equally important to how the music is percieved. It is, f.e.x., very common to place a dominant on certain beats in a bar, or having a progression over a certain numbers of bars.

    In the progression I-VI-II-V, each chord can be played over two beats in 4/4 meter 160 bpm, but how would you play the same progression i 5/4, or in 3/4? That is what I call, or have been taught to call, harmonic rhythm. How you distribute a progression over beats and bars.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  12. BriSol

    BriSol Member

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    I don't think the claim is necessarily that Brubeck singlehandedly invented odd time signatures in jazz, but he popularized it or put it front and center in a way I don't think had been done before. Likewise, there are technically classical music elements in jazz going on from the beginning (you could say jazz's base harmonic and melodic vocabulary is straight up from romanticism and impressionism + the blues) but Brubeck was one of the big people to make that influence a front and center element of the compositional approach. Bill Evans too in his way.
     
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  13. aiq

    aiq Supporting Member

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    KOB for the sonic beauty, the killer playing, the deep influence - Allman Brothers and Dead cite as big influence and by extension jam scene, and yes sales. Quadruple platinum.

    Then there was a record in 1960 called The Incredible Guitar of Wes Montgomery.
     
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  14. leshogan

    leshogan Member

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    Charles Mingus' Ah Uhm from about the same era...
    Best jazz album of all time.
     
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  15. Oriondk

    Oriondk Member

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    One of my favorites is Black Saint and the Sinner Lady. Great composition by Mingus.
     
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  16. gtrbarbarian

    gtrbarbarian Silver Supporting Member

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    Kind of Blue, but Portrait in Jazz is a masterpiece.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  17. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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  18. yfeefy

    yfeefy Member

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    Blues and the Abstract truth almost makes it - Feb 1961 - I looked it up. Stuff was just exploding at this time.

    (edit - sorry recorded feb, released august)
     
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  19. MR.K

    MR.K Member

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    I listened to Kind Of....yesterday. I was reminded how important Bill Evans was to that disc.
     
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  20. WordMan

    WordMan Member

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    So true. His “Bill Evans chords” open the album with such an open set of possibilities, which are resolved into Paul Chambers’ perfect-hook bassline. Sets up the whole album.

    I listen to Live at the Village Vanguard regularly, and Undercurrents.
     
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