1965 Princeton Amp into a 4X12 Marshall cab?

[Ocelot]

Is this doable: a non-verb Princeton into a 4X12 Marshall cab? Will the 16ohm cab damage the 8ohm OT? And through the 4X12, will the Princeton be loud enough to gig with, especially if miked? O-pinions? Thanks.

 

[mark norwine]

Fact: Nowhere else in the Fender B/F or S/F offerings is there such a difference between a non-Rev amp and it's companion rev-equipped amp. For technical reasons I won't bore you with, the PR will sit up & bark while the P (non-R) simply won't.

So:

Opinion: I've never had much use for non-Rev Princetons. Unless you use a pedal to drive the $not out of the input, they're just not that loud!

Putting one into a Marshall cab might make it sound a bit bigger, but it still won't roar.

As for the Z mismatch, yes, everyone says that "a fender can tolerate a 2x mismatch", but I'd prefer to see you mismatch downward, not up. Were this my project, I'd re-wire the cab for 4 ohms. I'd rather "heat up" the OT than run the risk of flyback damage.

YMMV.

 

[Ocelot]

Fact: Nowhere else in the Fender B/F or S/F offerings is there such a difference between a non-Rev amp and it's companion rev-equipped amp. For technical reasons I won't bore you with, the PR will sit up & bark while the P (non-R) simply won't.

So:

Opinion: I've never had much use for non-Rev Princetons. Unless you use a pedal to drive the $not out of the input, they're just not that loud!

Putting one into a Marshall cab might make it sound a bit bigger, but it still won't roar.

As for the Z mismatch, yes, everyone says that "a fender can tolerate a 2x mismatch", but I'd prefer to see you mismatch downward, not up. Were this my project, I'd re-wire the cab for 4 ohms. I'd rather "heat up" the OT than run the risk of flyback damage.

YMMV.

This would be a situation of using a backline 4X12 provided by the club my band is playing at, so I won't have a chance to rewire anything. The Princeton would basically be a head into the cab. But I certainly wouldn't want to run the risk of damaging the OT, especially if it won't be loud enough for gig purposes. Btw, I Love the non-verb Princeton. Mike Campbell's using them now, for it's worth. Fantastic clean tones.

 

[mark norwine]

Fantastic clean tones.

No argument. But that's all they offer. If you're looking for that, then give it a try(into the Marshall).

Personally...just me thinking out loud....a "fantastic clean tone" amp, run through a "Marshall cab", somehow I don't picture that real clearly. I guess I'm pre-conditioned to think of a 1960 cab as anything but a "clean machine"....

Have you ever gigged with a non-Rev Princeton? Is it loud enough for you? I know I could never get away with such a small amp.

 

[gldtp99]

I like the non-Verb BF Princeton, too---- i built a head version (no trem---- true PTP) using a '65 Schumacher 4/8/16 ohm OT----can be used with almost any cab and it kicks butt (for 12-15 watts) clean or with pedals.
Sometimes it's nice to take a break from building/testing the bigger amps and plug into this one thru a Marshall 4x12 and blast away with a Tubescreamer for fun...........gldtp99

 

[Ocelot]

No argument. But that's all they offer. If you're looking for that, then give it a try(into the Marshall).

Personally...just me thinking out loud....a "fantastic clean tone" amp, run through a "Marshall cab", somehow I don't picture that real clearly. I guess I'm pre-conditioned to think of a 1960 cab as anything but a "clean machine"....

Have you ever gigged with a non-Rev Princeton? Is it loud enough for you? I know I could never get away with such a small amp.

No, I've never gigged with it; I've just assumed it wouldn't be loud enough without a really good monitor mix. But I had heard/read that if you run one of these smaller Fenders into a 4X12 that the four speakers increases the volume significantly. But, I don't know the science, and have no experience with it myself. Either way, I wouldn't want to risk torching the OT.

 

[NortheastHick]

A fender amp running a 2-1 mismatch wont hurt anything.

 

[SatelliteAmps]

In the OP, you asked about if it would be loud enough if miked. If you are going to mike it, then why bother using an extra cabinet for volume?

 

[Ocelot]

Dumb question: if I plug the Princeton into an external cab, must I unplug the Princeton's internal speaker?

 

[Ocelot]

In the OP, you asked about if it would be loud enough if miked. If you are going to mike it, then why bother using an extra cabinet for volume?

'Cause I can't be 100% sure as to how well I'll be able to hear it on stage. In theory, yes, simple; in practice, not always so: depends on how competent and easy to work with the soundguy is. Also, will band members gripe about a bunch of guitar coming through the monitors? I'm trying to consider all potential pitfalls before trying it out, and avoid a headache at the gig.

 

[doctord02]

Observation: The brown Princeton's (circa 1962) *will* roar and sound great thru Marshall cabs. But they are still only 12 watts or so, and wont cut it for stage volume with a live drummer. But they do sound awesome...

 

[mark norwine]

Observation: The brown Princeton's (circa 1962)......

Whole different animal...

 

[doctord02]

Whole different animal...

Heh, yeah aint it tho...

 

[SatelliteAmps]

'Cause I can't be 100% sure as to how well I'll be able to hear it on stage. In theory, yes, simple; in practice, not always so: depends on how competent and easy to work with the soundguy is. Also, will band members gripe about a bunch of guitar coming through the monitors? I'm trying to consider all potential pitfalls before trying it out, and avoid a headache at the gig.

Adding a 4x12 will make a difference in volume, but not enough to not worry about stage volume. In theory or in practice. 12 watts is still only 12 watts, through one small speaker or four big ones.

And yes, band members will gripe if you are pushing massive guitar through the monitors to make up for an underpowered amp, but if it is part of a well leveled mix it should be fine.

No offense, but it sounds like this is all new territory for you. To be honest, do not depend on what a sound guy may or may not be able to do for you in clubs and venues that you don't know about. Get an amp and cab that will give you the stage volume you need. That probably won't be a Princeton through a 4x12 at this stage. If you make it big and have your own sound guys and crew, then it is very easy to do.

 

[jcs]

my late 65 non reverb is loud and dont ask me why.

i have a dozen + of 50s-60s-70s fender amps,marshalls ampegs, this is the loudest 2 6v6 amp i own in terms of loud and clean and i can say you must try different 12ax7 tubes as well, i have a super strong sylvania long plate 12ax7 in the pi and it really brought out this amps tones.

i also have a replaced baffle with a 12 and have tried a variety of 10 and 12 inch speakers, right now i have a weber 1230-75 with pre rola doping and this amp does a lot very well i must say and it does well with pedals too,ymmv.

 

[BertusJ65]

Dumb question: if I plug the Princeton into an external cab, must I unplug the Princeton's internal speaker?

yes
the amp should be plenty loud for stage with a 4x12 cab
I played a single ended 6 watt amp through a 4x12 and it was loud enough
best o luck

 

[Ocelot]

Lol. Just read this thread top to bottom: opinions are all over the map. I appreciate all the info.
Just to clarify, the reason I was curious about running the Princeton through a 4X12 is that I live in NYC- without a car. Most clubs provide a Marshall 4X12 cab. A Princeton is light enough to carry on the subway (saves big $$ in cab fare to and from), while a Deluxe Reverb or equivalent amps really are not light enough. I have a Winfield Cyclone head on order, but I'm not sure if it will be ready by my next gig, so I was just wondering about other options. Again, thanks for all the insight.