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1967 Dual Showman...Silverface w/ Blackface electronics?

stamper

Member
Messages
350
So I was perusing the local Craigslist in search for an amp and I came across a post for a 1967 Fender Dual Showman that was Silverface with "Blackface electronics." Is this possible? They give the serial number, which checks out as made in 1967, but they don't give any pictures of the serial number...I am admittedly ignorant on such topics, but I've never heard of Fender making a silverface amp with blackface electronics. I do know enough to know that silverface amps didn't come out until 1968... So whats the deal? I'd assume he meant the amp was blackfaced, but seeing as how it's listed as 1967 that doesn't seem possible! Is this some sort of prototype or is it a scam? Hm...

Here's a link to the ad: http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/msg/2818532084.html
 

LPMojoGL

Music Room Superstar
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,126
Seems possible to me. My Dual Showman dates to 67, although my dad and grandmother both say it was made before that.

I believe 67 is the year that Fender started transitioning to the silver face look, and that the first silverface amps still had the blackface circuit.
 

wingwalker

Fuzzy Guitars
Messages
6,782
The earliest Silverface amps showed up in 1967 but all 1967 and almost all 1968 silverface Fenders were the same inside as a Blackface.
 

Sweetfinger

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,751
Some of the circuit changes thought of as "silverface" happened long before the panels changed color. Fender didn't completely redesign their amps in 1968 and change the faceplate color to warn you. Fender was CONSTANTLY changing amp circuits. The majority of the "undesirable" changes came in the mid to late 70s.
OP, want a blackface amp? Find an old faceplate and put it on your amp. You will now have an amp that is identical to any other late blackface Dual Showman.
 

pfflam

Member
Messages
7,118
The earliest Silverface amps showed up in 1967 but all 1967 and almost all 1968 silverface Fenders were the same inside as a Blackface.
Not true, some were early adopters of the CBS goodness, such as Bassmans: they went to bias balance and other minor changes in 65, and others did as well.
 

Sweetfinger

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,751
Not true, some were early adopters of the CBS goodness, such as Bassmans: they went to bias balance and other minor changes in 65, and others did as well.
You said not true, then explained why it WAS true. :dunno
 

hunter

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,270
The big Fenders all went through significant changes in 67-68. The most well known "undesirable change" is the combined fixed bias, cathode bias. One of the earliest SF changes implemented, it was so unpopular that Fender stopped doing it in about a year. Other things happened in the 67-72 timeframe too. Different wire, different rectifiers (on the rectifier models), different transformers, different caps, bias balance, other circuit tweeks, different cabinets.

As noted, Fender was constantly in a state of transition and it is difficult to state with any certainty whether or not a 67 SF Dual Showman is going to have BF circuitry. Pretty sure a 68 won't.

If you need to know, you'll have to look. One thing that is the earlier, the better the chance that it can be fully changed to blackface specs if so desired.

hunter
 

smolder

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
14,395
... and it is difficult to state with any certainty whether or not a 67 SF Dual Showman is going to have BF circuitry. Pretty sure a 68 won't.
The only way to tell is to look at the bias wiring, transformers, lead dressing, and check the resister values in the PI and power stage. Most of that will tell you what it is... not necessarily what it was when it came from Fullerton.
 

Sweetfinger

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,751
The big Fenders all went through significant changes in 67-68. The most well known "undesirable change" is the combined fixed bias, cathode bias. One of the earliest SF changes implemented, it was so unpopular that Fender stopped doing it in about a year.
Funny thing is- that the last Showman I heard with combo bias sounded great! I'm not so sure that Fender changed it because of unpopularity. My guess is that it was more about the hassle and cost of those big cement resistors without much of an improvement in reliability. If Fender at that time REALLY cared about the "sound", why did they continue to evolve away from the classic sound and towards the truly awful sounding amps of the late 70s?
 




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