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1968 Jensen C12N sounds harsh in 68 Deluxe Reverb

RockinJV

Member
Messages
59
Yes, the 47pF cap is the bright cap.



Hmmm...Aluminum dust cap? I don't remember these having aluminum dust caps. None of the old teal framed ones did, not that I've ever seen. Makes me wonder if yours was reconed.

And the metal dust cap doesn't generally do anything to help with brightness, IME...tends to make it worse.

But that being said, I still thought your clip sounded fine and not harsh at all.

As for where the knobs were set and what you like; IMO, play it the way it sounds good to you...not based on where you think the knobs should be.

Another perspective is...if an amp doesn't sound good to you, maybe it's just not your thing. I don't force myself to try to like some amp (or anything else) just because I know it's highly regarded by others. If I know the amp is functioning properly, with right parts, decent speaker, etc., but I don't really like it...out it goes.
I'm not sure my ipod is capturing those harsh high frequencies. I like the way it sounds in the recording, if anything it may be breaking up too early. It also seems to have a hard time with heavy overdrive or fuzz. I will work on getting a recording to demo that.

My Super seems to be better at note clarity within chords. the definition is much more pronounced.

As you guys have said it's all about testing and trying stuff out.

I am really glad you all are helping me with this! I'm having fun with it.

:bow
 

slider313

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,138
The MM power transformer is made to blackface specs so a GZ34 would be the correct tube.

I would try a few different 12" speakers if you can. I actually prefer a Weber reconed C12N to the original.
 

RockinJV

Member
Messages
59
Took it to the tech. The bias was set way too cold.

Just played last night, It sounds great and is loud enough to play with my band. But forget about trying to keep it clean.

I did not get around to clipping the bright cap. It didn't seem to affect the sound at the higher volume at rehearsal. Seems to just sound too crisp at pactice levels.

Thanks for your input!
 

ripsix

Member
Messages
1
I have a 1967 that has the exact circuitry. Mine is very good condition with only a few parts not original:
the tubes
the diode board capacitor which is not paper now
a .1 200v blue cap changed for an orange drop
and 5 resistors in the PI section
It still has the paper power caps which don't have any physical deterioration.

However it is starting to experience some sound issues and I'm thinking that I may have to replace those wonderful old caps....I hate to do it since it's so "pristine". It has "THE" sound....
 

Geetarpicker

Member
Messages
2,842
I blew up two different original 60s C12Ns in my '64 Fender Deluxe. Great sounding speakers, but they don't take to well to much overdrive so be careful.
 

slider313

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,138
FYI: For those looking to recone an original Jensen P or C12N or P or C12P speaker, go with Weber's 12W cone and 50 watt voice coil. The 12W cone has more mids and smoother highs than any of his other "Vintage Series" 12" speakers. I've done two C12P's and two P12P's with this cone and can say I've never been more pleased with any Jensen recone.
 

zenas

Member
Messages
8,270
I have a 1967 that has the exact circuitry. Mine is very good condition with only a few parts not original:
the tubes
the diode board capacitor which is not paper now
a .1 200v blue cap changed for an orange drop
and 5 resistors in the PI section
It still has the paper power caps which don't have any physical deterioration.

However it is starting to experience some sound issues and I'm thinking that I may have to replace those wonderful old caps....I hate to do it since it's so "pristine". It has "THE" sound....
Those wonderful paper covered electroytics are past their prime.
 

headstack

Member
Messages
195
Ripsix,
Changing your ancient cardboard jacketed 16uf 475v electrolytic filter caps will not ruin tue tone of your amp.
If anything, it will improve the definition a bit by tightening the bottom end a little bit, and headroom may improve a bit.
The main improvement is less hum do to lower ripple.
Skip wasting your money on Sprague Atom, as they are not what they once were.
F&T are pretty decent, and spec is good if you get them from a reputable supplier.
Orange Drops have a bit of a strident effect, and you might find a good Polypropylene film cap more to your liking.
I just swapped out some of my "Brown Turds" for some Epcos Polypropylenes.
A few of the 0.1uF 600v and 200v caps and a 0.022uF were swapped out, and it still sounds beautiful, but there is an increase in note definition and transient response.
Anyhow, just a thought!
If my amp were full of "Blue Molded" caps it would be a different case, but there were only a few of those in there.
Now if we could just get a group of folks together to start building tubes up to the standards and specs that NOS JAN were built to, I would be tickled pink:)
 

Silent Sound

Member
Messages
5,032
I blew up two different original 60s C12Ns in my '64 Fender Deluxe. Great sounding speakers, but they don't take to well to much overdrive so be careful.
You blew two C12N's with a Deluxe Reverb?! That's crazy man! That's a 22 watt amp! They use those in Twin Reverbs! Ive cranked mine with OD and boost pedals hundreds of times to the point where the bass farts out and never had an issue. Something must have been wrong with those speakers or they weren't N's.
 

FF71

Member
Messages
5,456
If you like the C12N tone (which I do too) in a DR. I really recommend a Cannabis Rex speaker. Tames the highs perfectly and really sounds closer to a well worn C12N. It also sounds louder and bigger! Btw, check your bias and tubes. The C12N is not a "bright" speaker imo, unless it is a reissue?



 
Last edited:

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,716
You blew two C12N's with a Deluxe Reverb?! That's crazy man! That's a 22 watt amp! They use those in Twin Reverbs! Ive cranked mine with OD and boost pedals hundreds of times to the point where the bass farts out and never had an issue. Something must have been wrong with those speakers or they weren't N's.
Old speakers are old, expecting them to take what they would have taken 45 years ago fresh from factory is not being realistic. Components become old and brittle.
 

Silent Sound

Member
Messages
5,032
Old speakers are old, expecting them to take what they would have taken 45 years ago fresh from factory is not being realistic. Components become old and brittle.
I totally agree with you there. And the moving parts are made of paper and glue. They'll definitely become weaker over time. The thing is, I own several Jensen speakers from the sixties because they are my favorite speakers and you can often buy them for the same price as a brand new speaker. With a few exceptions, I put them in all my amps. I've never blown one. A twin of that time was 85 watts. That's over 40 watts a speaker! A Deluxe Rever is 22 watts, and kinda sounds like crap at the top of its output power. So in a DR, that speaker would likely see less than half what it could take when it was new. A speaker that blows at less than half it expected power limits isn't just old and worn, it was damaged before it blew. Maybe the glue got wet. Maybe the voice coil corroded. Maybe the paper got left in the sun. But from my experience with many old C12N's, I've found them to hold up surprisingly well over the years.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
40,899
Truth is lots of speakers sound excellent in BF/SF Fenders. We're living in a time of speaker abundance!
 




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