1978 Marshall OE tube questions

Vanyu

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Where do I look to see where these were made? They're 3 Tungsram ECC83's, OE out of my 1978 Marshall 2203, all original, manufactured in February of 1977, all bearing the same '65H15' date codes under an 'ECC83' badge. No brand on them at all. The only other markings on them is a '57' stamped under the getter, and an 'L' etched into the base of the glass between pins 1 and 9. Most of the info online about these only concerns the 'B' and 'J' code Mullard Tungsrams. Thoughts?

EDIT: While I'm here, I may ask about the power tubes as well. This amp came to me with 4 (old) Svetlana 6550B's in it. Was this OE for this amp? They've definitely been there for a VERY long time... They're going right back in the amp if they are original, though I'm thinking that these weren't stock in 1978. No date codes on these either.
 
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Timbre Wolf

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Tungsram tubes were made in Hungary. They were not made in Philips factories, and thus won't have Philips etched codes (like "B" for Blackburn/Mullard). They will, like yours, have a square metal tag mounted on the getter wire support rod.
 

Vanyu

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Okay, cool.

I did read that Tungsram was acquired by Philips sometime in the 60's, and some 'Tungsram' tubes were made out of Blackburn and Tottenham. Were these tubes relabeled Mullards? Just curious for future reference...
 

Timbre Wolf

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Okay, cool.

I did read that Tungsram was acquired by Philips sometime in the 60's, and some 'Tungsram' tubes were made out of Blackburn and Tottenham. Were these tubes relabeled Mullards? Just curious for future reference...
Where did you read this? Do you have a reference? I've never heard of such a connection, and Tungsram tube construction bears no similarity to Philips. Hungarian Tungsram did have a British presence, but that was at a time that preceded the manufacturing of tubes that our typical guitar amps use now.

- T
 
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Jeff West

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That's British Tungsram Radio, which originated as a subsidiary of Tungsram in UK in the '30s, became controlled by Philips before the '60s.

British Tungsram was involved in valve manufacture too. Early on they sometimes finished valves made in part from Hungarian made components, which kept them out of BVA for awhile, I believe. Among other things, British Tungsram made cool 6V6Gs sold by GEC. Tottenham, IIRC.

The nice Tungsram 12AX7 with the tags are Different- Hungarian!
 
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Timbre Wolf

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That's British Tungsram Radio, which originated as a subsidiary of Tungsram in UK in the '30s, became controlled by Philips before the '60s.

British Tungsram was involved in valve manufacture too. Early on they sometimes finished valves made in part from Hungarian made components, which kept them out of BVA for awhile, I believe. Among other things, British Tungsram made cool 6V6Gs sold by GEC. Tottenham, IIRC.

The nice Tungsram 12AX7 with the tags are Different- Hungarian!
Thanks for the scoop, Jeff!
 

Vanyu

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Good to know! Do you know if the tubes produced by Mullard were Tungsram designs, or simply rebranded Mullards?

While I'm here and asking about tubes, does anybody know if Svetlana 6550B's were standard Marshall equipment in the late 70's? I can't seem to find a clear answer to when production of this tube began. They've definitely been in this amp for a long while.
 

mc5nrg

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No Svetlana tubes were stock in Marshalls in the late 70s.
 

Jeff West

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British Tungsram in Tottenham had their own specific designs for particular tubes, like STC Brimar they had a large focus on American types and designations, including beam tubes like 6V6 and 6L6 that Philips didn't make. Looking at tubemuseumsite just now, they summarize that Philips took controlling interest in 1952, and the Tottenham facility continued production through 1956, although I've seen other specific dates cited. Especially after Philips took over, they'de have Tungsram brand on both Tottenham made, and later also put it on totally Philips made and designed tubes, but also others sourced outside. Regarding Britsh-made 12AX7s iwith Tungsram brand in particular, in the Philips years, the ones I've seen have mainly been made by STC (Brimar) for longplates in the '50s, and Blackburn/Mullards for shortplates in the '60s. You'll also find Blackburn GZ34s and so on with Tungsram brand in the '60s.
 

Timbre Wolf

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British Tungsram in Tottenham had their own specific designs for particular tubes, like STC Brimar they had a large focus on American types and designations, including beam tubes like 6V6 and 6L6 that Philips didn't make. Looking at tubemuseumsite just now, they summarize that Philips took controlling interest in 1952, and the Tottenham facility continued production through 1956, although I've seen other specific dates cited. Especially after Philips took over, they'de have Tungsram brand on both Tottenham made, and later also put it on totally Philips made and designed tubes, but also others sourced outside. Regarding Britsh-made 12AX7s iwith Tungsram brand in particular, in the Philips years, the ones I've seen have mainly been made by STC (Brimar) for longplates in the '50s, and Blackburn/Mullards for shortplates in the '60s. You'll also find Blackburn GZ34s and so on with Tungsram brand in the '60s.

I've not encountered those as "Tungsram" labeled. Thanks Jeff!
- Thom
 

Jeff West

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From Reverb.
Anyone got any Tungsram Xf2s?

Ah,

images
images


British Tungsram made CV1947/6L6Gs with 6/53 acceptance dates:
cv1947-6l6g-match-pair.jpg


Blackburn 12AX7s all:

Mullard+ECC83+1960s+Halo+Various+Labels+Marconi+Tungsram+Mullard+Old+Shield+Etc+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg


HAPPY NEW YEAR!
 
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sickboy79

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14,250
Good to know! Do you know if the tubes produced by Mullard were Tungsram designs, or simply rebranded Mullards?

While I'm here and asking about tubes, does anybody know if Svetlana 6550B's were standard Marshall equipment in the late 70's? I can't seem to find a clear answer to when production of this tube began. They've definitely been in this amp for a long while.
Svetlana definitely were not OEM tubes for that amp. I have a 79 2204 that had the original 6550s in it when I got it. Mine were GE. I had the amp converted to EL34s (which I personally prefer).
 

Vanyu

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738
Svetlana definitely were not OEM tubes for that amp. I have a 79 2204 that had the original 6550s in it when I got it. Mine were GE. I had the amp converted to EL34s (which I personally prefer).
I figured that was probably the case. I went ahead and put a hodgepodge quad of Tesla and a Mullard EL34's in there, and I'm pretty happy with it, so I'll stick with it. Maybe I'll try some Gold Lion KT88's on the next go, people seem to love those...
 

Jeff West

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1,133
Nice reference!

The military codings (UK, U.S., and others) are really useful for pinning down precisely where the tube was actually completed, because unlike many civilian "manufacturer" codes they didn't encompass "sponsorship" of tubes sourced from elsewhere, but indicated one specific factory of origin. So for example you can find "188" code on a British Mullard made 12AX7 branded and sold commercially as a GE, but if you have a JAN 12AX7 with labeling indicating GE Owensboro, KY, then that always means that tube was made there and only there.

One other thing to bear in mind about UK CV 2-letter dating codes that might not be clear from the above reference is that any of these date codes that are found in a "separate cartouche" (as they said!) containing the governmental Up Arrow symbol give the date that the tube was accepted as meeting the "KB", etc. standard, not the date of actual manufacture. Sometimes there are other date codes on the same piece (away from the arrow) that give the manufacturing date. Usually in such cases they're close, ranging from the same month to a few months (< 1 year) later. But a few times, I've seen British valves coded as made in the '40s with "KB/" acceptance dates in the early 1960s, I guess they pulled some things out of deep storage!
 




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