1x10 vs 1x12

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Nota, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. Nota

    Nota Member

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    This has probably been asked to death somewhere...

    I use an Ethos Amp -> Open-back, pine 1x12 with a Celestion G12 Neo (4lbs). It's under 15 pounds loaded. Sounds great, very portable, $150.

    So I got to thinking... why not an even smaller, lighter 1x10? What are the disadvantages? Are 10'' speakers not as loud? There seem to be some efficient ones. I think the dispersion would actually be wider, right? I'm not a big fan of a lot of bass, either, I tend to dislike Fendery bottoms.

    "Boxy" doesn't necessarily scare me either, just has to be a musical, loud boxy :)

    Thanks for the help. Just something I'm playing around with. I gig with my tiny 1x12 and it's already funny, a smaller cab would be even more hilarious.
     
  2. lostpoet2

    lostpoet2 Supporting Member

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    You could do something similar with a 10" Jensen Neo Tornado, but I don't think it would be much lighter.

    If you really want to get ridiculous, you should consider going with just the regular Ethos pedal and a 6" studio monitor. Or for example, I have a pretty nice pair of 4" computer monitors that would mount nicely on a pedalboard and make a mini stereo rig.
     
  3. GtrWiz

    GtrWiz Member

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    People will come in and say stuff like they are punchier and have better mids or whatever. Truth is it totally depends on the speaker, tons of bass players use 10's so it's not that they lack low end, it's just that every speaker is a little different.
     
  4. Nota

    Nota Member

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    Similar weight would be fine... open back pine is light :) It's the cuteness and size that would be funny.

    Any in particular that you recommend for an Ethos type thing?

    No other disadvantages to going with a tiny enclosure with a 10''? I'm puzzled why more people don't do this.
     
  5. tuj

    tuj Member

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    No in fact I'm looking for a similar enclosure cab for my Emery Microbaby. I really want to use the 10" Weber Blue Pup speaker. I've found a few small 1x10's but not nearly as many as the 1x12's. Personally I have had 4x12, 1x12, 2x12, 2x10, 1x8 and I like the 2x10 the best. The 2x12 with Celestion GT75's just wasn't as good as the 2x10 or the 1x12. IMHO of course.
     
  6. OOG

    OOG Member

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    Tone Tubby ceramic is really good for this
     
  7. Geeze

    Geeze Silver Supporting Member

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    I like 10's a lot - particularly the Celestion Gold and Greenback run together. As a joke I wanted to build the 'world's smallest 2x12 closed back cab' in a 15" cube. But I miscalculated the magnet depth on a 12 Gold. So I stuck in the 10's and it is my travel cab now. Sounds a lot bigger than it looks. You also might look at 8" - surprisingly ballsy.

    Russ
     
  8. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    I used my Ethos pedal/amp with a 10" Gauss at a small gig with trumpet, sax, Upright bass and vocalist. It was barely enough volume for me. It did sound good! Next time I'll use a Swamp Thang in an open back
     
  9. Nota

    Nota Member

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    Um, people use 8'' speakers??? Don't tempt me :D

    Why is it less volume? That speaker is rated at 102 dB sensitivity. I'm really confused about why 10'' speakers have less volume given similar (or better) specs than a 12''. Or was it because it's a 150W speaker, or because it was a closed back? :confused:

    Edit: Upon reading closer, it seems that you meant "I would choose the Swamp Thang to be louder". I get it now! So you think it would work with a really small cab and a 10'' eh?
     
  10. Roland G88

    Roland G88 Member

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    My Mesa TA 1x10 sounds great with a Traynor YBA-1. More focused and a bit less bass than a 1x12. They respond differently and my perception is it takes less power to drive the 10 into a sweet spot but I like the sound of both. Might be the smallest 40w rig I've seen.
     
  11. Nota

    Nota Member

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    Thanks! Does it get loud enough for gigs? As loud as a 1x12?
     
  12. Multicellular

    Multicellular Supporting Member

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    Truth. The whole 12s for Guitar and 10s for bass is a fluke of history.

    Cone material, magnet, etc. Make a bigger difference. You have to get down to 5 inches or so before it makes technical sense for guitar.
     
  13. Nota

    Nota Member

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    So a tiny cab with an 8 or 10'' speaker would be both a) loud enough, and b) sound pretty good - depending on the choice of speaker?
     
  14. GtrWiz

    GtrWiz Member

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    I've never played an Ethos other than sitting in with a friends band on a song, so I can't say for certain. I can say that I have an Eminence Red Fang 10' that I think sounds great with fender amps. I tried the Gold 10, but I think the RF has a tighter low end which I like.
     
  15. Roland G88

    Roland G88 Member

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    Well, that depends. It will hold its own if your band doesn't play too loud but can get buried by 2x12's or 4x12's pretty easily as the volume rises.
     
  16. joburr

    joburr Member

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    I play fairly large clubs sometimes with a 5 watt Fender Champ fitted with a 10" speaker. That's with a band that where I want a little dirt though. And not too many effects.

    All this stuff depends on what kind of music you play, how loud your band is, if you play where there are sound guys and PAs, etc. I prefer 10" myself because it's like having a mixing engineer with me at all times. I sit right in the middle of the mix, with a little sparkle. Never too bassy or boomy. But my sound is pretty clean, just a little crunch, and effects are used sparingly.

    Playing live is becoming more and more like playing in a studio. There is a mic on the amp. And before you complain about how bad a sound guy is at a venue. Turning up isn't going to make anything sound better. The show will just have ****** sound AND a guitar that's being played too loud. You're better off with just ****** sound haha.

    Another thing how much you like to hear yourself. Personally, I like to hear myself in the mix. I don't like to point the amp at myself so I can hear myself over the band. I tend to play better when I hear the band, if anything, a little more than the audience does, so I can lock in with the drums and bass (too many arguments with sound guys before shows, "No, I don't want to tilt the amp up towards me! It's a freaking 5-watt amp, chill out!" Usually after the first song, they get the point. "Oh this guy isn't too loud." Funny that sound guys show up to the job and assume the guitarist is already too loud before we even play a note. Lol.

    Here's what I've learned: You might just have to try it. For a few months. And keep your mind and ears open during those months. Really learn what makes it different to play through a 10". Don't just try it once and come to a conclusion. A lot of guitarists play through an amp once and think "this sucks, that is better!" The stage is different than the bedroom. Playing in a group is different than by yourself. The studio is different than all of those things. Your style is different than everyone else's. You guitar is different than your neighbors.

    Worse thing that can happen is that you'll sound a little different for a few months. 2" different. And to me, amps are more about how they "feel" rather than how they sound.
     
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  17. Nota

    Nota Member

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    So what I'm trying to figure out is the truthiness of the following:

    - An 8'' speaker can get just as loud as a 12'' given similar efficiency
    - It can sound the same depending on which speaker
    - It can be in a tiny, open back cab and still sound great (with more dispersion)

    I'd love opinions on the above, but for some reason it seems hard to get people to address these things directly. Maybe it's that few people have tried it (maybe it looks silly or something).
     
  18. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    I've had a Quilter with an 8". Loud enough but no extra. I have a 50 watt MusicMan with a 10" ceramic. For me it was barely adequate and now the speaker has a buzz. If I was really worried about size I could make it work if I had some Ed Goforth mods and a 10 that can handle the power. 12s work best for me, or two 10s. I'm also kind of a loud player even though I mostly play jazz and swing dance music.
     
  19. Pietro

    Pietro 2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy

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    In my experience, 10" single speaker cabs or combos are just a little midrange heavier, lack some of the bass of the 12", and sound best in 2s or 4s (or even 3s).

    The same amp through a 10" speaker will be noticeably quieter because of how much less air is moving.

    And it might cut through the mix just fine, all that said.

    The only 8" speakers I've used disappointed.
     
  20. Silent Sound

    Silent Sound Member

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    - An 8'' speaker can get just as loud as a 12'' given similar efficiency

    Yes. In fact, that's how you measure efficiency. You hook up a 1 watt, 1kHz sine wave and set a microphone 1 meter directly in front of it and measure the volume. An 8" speaker with a higher efficiency will actually be louder than a 12" speaker with a lower efficiency.

    - It can sound the same depending on which speaker

    Not really, but kind of. Because the speakers are a different size, they will sound different. A Celestion Gold 10" sounds different from a Celestion Gold 12". However, you can design a speaker to sound any number of different ways, so you can't throw out blanket statements like all 10" speakers lack bass or all 15" speakers lack highs. Generally speaking, the larger a speaker is, the easier it is for it to produce lower frequencies and the harder it will be to produce higher frequencies. But there are other things you can do when engineering a speaker to compensate for those characteristics. Cone size is just one small part of the overall equation.

    - It can be in a tiny, open back cab and still sound great (with more dispersion)

    Sure. Not really. D.) All of the above. "Sound great" is a subjective term. What one person thinks sounds great, another person will say doesn't. The cabinet design will always have a large impact on how the speaker sounds. And different speakers will react differently in different cabinets. Some speakers were designed for large sealed enclosures, and some speakers were designed for small open back cabinets. Some speakers were designed for sealed enclosures but some guitarists think they sound better in open backed cabs. And the amp/effects/guitar/style will all have an effect on this too.

    So it's best not to take the opinions of others too seriously. You're the only one like you on this planet, and therefore the only one qualified to know what you will and won't like. There is no best, worst, good, bad, right, or wrong when it comes to sound. It's all just things you like versus things you don't like as much, and hoping there are others out there with similar sensibilities.
     

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