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1x12 Speaker advice

dehughes

Member
Messages
1,156
Long time since I looked into speakers. What are we all liking as far as Voxy Marshally alnico tones? Is the Celestion Blue still the deal?

I ask because I'm looking for a more even yet still clear replacement for a Celestion Greenback in a 1x12 combo. Had a bunch of speakers in there, including a Blue, but I'm looking for a softer, less-efficient speaker that will give air and articulation yet keep things soft and sensitive.

I'd consider a Heritage Greenback, or maybe something from Weber, but figure there might be new additions to the speaker world since I last looked into it.

Lemme know what you all think, and thanks in advance.
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
42,939
Heaps of options these days.

How many watts is your amp?

For a 1X12 with an amp that has decent power you can look at:

Cream Alnico
Redback
Blackbird
EV12L

Lots of options.........


FWIW - in a 1X12 with a Vox style amp (and even Marshalls) I dig the Cream Alnico.

Here's my HW AC30 into a 1X12 with a Cream Alnico for reference:


 

dehughes

Member
Messages
1,156
18w, Top Hat Club Royale 1x12

Looking to keep it not-wound-up...in other words, a less sensitive speaker that won't be edgy but will retain and compliment the air and qualities of that amp.

Your Cream Alnico / Vox combo sounds good, but isn't that speaker pretty uppity...that is, a high efficiency speaker?
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
42,939
I have 3x SC75s.

2x 30Ws and 1x 65W.

The SC75s are to me like a more refined Celestion alnico.

They are not as raw as the Celestions.

The SC75 has a mellowed top end whilst retaining 'chime' and a more pronounced low-mid.

If you want something brighter with more upper-mid and less low-mid then look at the S75-PVC.
 

dehughes

Member
Messages
1,156
I have 3x SC75s.

2x 30Ws and 1x 65W.

The SC75s are to me like a more refined Celestion alnico.

They are not as raw as the Celestions.

The SC75 has a mellowed top end whilst retaining 'chime' and a more pronounced low-mid.

If you want something brighter with more upper-mid and less low-mid then look at the S75-PVC.

Thanks. I want the air and vibe without the harsh quickness. A balanced speaker that is inefficient, clear without being harsh, yet fuller in the low end than my G12M Greenback. Alnico would be cool but isn’t necessary.

Sounds like the SC75 in the 30 or 65w range then, maybe?
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
42,939
Sounds like the SC75 in the 30 or 65w range then, maybe?

I think it would work nicely, but that's only one option, especially (as you've stated) if alnicos aren't the only consideration. I'm sure there's many ceramics that would also work nicely.
 

Teleplayer

Moder8er
Staff member
Messages
20,253
David,

Hope you are well. Good to see you.As you know, I have owned 8 different Club Royales. For what you are seeking, I’d strongly consider a Scumback M75 (~97db like a Greenback) or J75 (~98db). Speak directly to Jim Seavall and speak with him at length, he will guide you.

Also, what year is your CR? Does it have the larger Heyboer OT that Brian went to around 2005/6 or is it an earlier model with the smaller Deluxe Reverb size OT?

Is it tube or SS rectified? And if it’s tube recto, is it EZ81 or 5AR4??

The circuits, OTs and cabs have evolved quite a bit over the years. Lots of variables involved with this amp.
 

56Tweed

Ge Fuzz-o-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,022
David,

Hope you are well. Good to see you.As you know, I have owned 8 different Club Royales. For what you are seeking, I’d strongly consider a Scumback M75 (~97db like a Greenback) or J75 (~98db). Speak directly to Jim Seavall and speak with him at length, he will guide you.

Also, what year is your CR? Does it have the larger Heyboer OT that Brian went to around 2005/6 or is it an earlier model with the smaller Deluxe Reverb size OT?

Is it tube or SS rectified? And if it’s tube recto, is it EZ81 or 5AR4??

The circuits, OTs and cabs have evolved quite a bit over the years. Lots of variables involved with this amp.

I wish there were better resources on the web that list those details. This is the first I've heard of the transformers changing. I always thought the evolution was largely cosmetic. Your post makes me want to seek out a later one.
 

HeavyCream

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,384
Thanks. I want the air and vibe without the harsh quickness. A balanced speaker that is inefficient, clear without being harsh, yet fuller in the low end than my G12M Greenback. Alnico would be cool but isn’t necessary.

Sounds like the SC75 in the 30 or 65w range then, maybe?

SC75 is one of my favorite speakers. Sounds like pretty much everything you’re looking for except they do not have a big full low end. The vintage Celestion Alnicos aren’t known for that, and that’s what the Scumback Alnicos are close too.

The GB12 Legends are worth considering imo. Similar to M25 Greenback in some ways, but 50w, smoother top end, more of a balanced, full low end, and woody mids.

I haven’t tried the Scumback J75’s but that could also be a consideration. Magnet weight, efficiency and tonality between M75 (G12M-25) and H75 (G12H-30). Seems to be an excellent choice for a 112 where the Greenback tone works well, but more low end is needed. Or, of course, the M55.
 
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56Tweed

Ge Fuzz-o-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,022
SC75 is one of my favorite speakers. Sounds like pretty much everything you’re looking for except they do not have a big full low end. The vintage Celestion Alnicos aren’t known for that, and that’s what the Scumback Alnicos are close too.

The GB12 Legends are worth considering imo. Similar to M25 Greenback in some ways, but 50w, smoother top end, more of a balanced, full low end, and woody mids.

I haven’t tried the Scumback J75’s but that could also be a consideration. Magnet weight, efficiency and tonality between M75 (G12M-25) and H75 (G12H-30). Seems to be an excellent choice for a 112 where the Greenback tone works well, but more low end is needed. Or, of course, the M55.

I agree with everything you posted, but one thing to mention is that the Club Royale I have (and all the ones I've seen in the past) have an oversized combo cab that is deeper than normal. This is the biggest/fattest/deepest 1x12 combo sound I've ever heard so I don't think it will be lacking in low end with an alnico.

Another thing I'll mention is that at one time I tried replacing the speaker on my CR and was unable to get the speaker out and didn't want to risk damaging it so I left it alone. I'm not sure if the seal just compressed or if maybe there was something added to bond it, but it did not want to release.
 

Muzzy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,266
Another one to consider is the Avatar A25. It's efficient but, it's more laid back in the highs and mids than a celestion blue. I just put one in a 5e3 and it sounds better to me than the blue that was in there. I've read that it sounds really good with Vox and Marshall amps.
 

Teleplayer

Moder8er
Staff member
Messages
20,253
I agree with everything you posted, but one thing to mention is that the Club Royale I have (and all the ones I've seen in the past) have an oversized combo cab that is deeper than normal. This is the biggest/fattest/deepest 1x12 combo sound I've ever heard so I don't think it will be lacking in low end with an alnico.

Another thing I'll mention is that at one time I tried replacing the speaker on my CR and was unable to get the speaker out and didn't want to risk damaging it so I left it alone. I'm not sure if the seal just compressed or if maybe there was something added to bond it, but it did not want to release.

Again, depends on the era of Club Royale you are talking about. The original scripty CRs had 10" deep cabinets. In the early-to-mid 2000s, Brian changed the 1x12 to an 11" deep cabinet. When Brian moved from CA to NC, he also changed his cabinet makers. When his cabs became more Mojotone-centric, the baffle became a floating baffle -- his original cab maker in CA (the same operation that made cabs for Bogner and others), the baffle was not a floating baffle.

I have had older TopHat cabs where the speaker gasket became a bit affixed to the baffle - it was from speaker gasket compression. I could take an Exacto knife and gently coax the gasket away from the baffle with no harm done to either. There as nothing added purposely to bond the speaker to the gasket.
 

Teleplayer

Moder8er
Staff member
Messages
20,253
FYI - Brian Gerhard (Mr. TopHat) is a HUGE Celestion speaker guy. He was one of the first (and maybe THE first) to work with Weber; had issues with them and discontinued using their offerings (this was way back in the day, however, when Ted was still making speakers out of his garage in Kokomo).

He has an ardent dislike for Eminence speakers in the amps he builds. He does, however, dig Scumbacks. And when Brian built my Embassy head/2x12 cab in 2016 he gladly went with Jim Seavall's spot-on recommendation of a J75/SC75 in that cab. Both speakers are 98/98.1 db and both are 65 watters. They sound fantastic together. Perfect for Brian's brilliant Embassy head.
 

Teleplayer

Moder8er
Staff member
Messages
20,253
I wish there were better resources on the web that list those details. This is the first I've heard of the transformers changing. I always thought the evolution was largely cosmetic. Your post makes me want to seek out a later one.

The change in transformers also occurred when Brian changed the rectifier to an EZ81 - which really got the amp much more in the true AC15/18W range. Prior to that he was going with 5AR4/GZ34 and then ss recto -- before going back to tube rectifiers.

The much larger Heyboer OT gives the amp much more volume and "girth". My 2016 2x12 CR (loaded with a 20 year old matched pair of MIE G12H30 Anniversary speakers) is nearly as loud as my script logo 2x12 King Royale. And the later CRs are far more stout sounding than the script logo era CRs, with less sag/squish/grease than the script logo era models.
 




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