2 Channel Classic Fenders?

Messages
643
Mostly referring to "blackface" style amps:

Most of them have two "channels", with inputs for each. I've always noticed that I prefer one channel over the other (usually the one with more knobs).

My question is:

Are these two circuits in some kind of "serial" wiring? What I mean is..

..does the existence of the first channel contribute to the tone of the second channel?

..and/or..

If you removed the first channel would the amp essentially sound and operate the same with just one channel? (compared to using said channel normally)
 

wyatt

Member
Messages
4,167
They are independent. With a handful of tweaks, you could build any one channel by itself.

Examples...

  • Allen Amps are designed around just the Vibrato channel of classic Fender reverb combos.
  • The Princeton Reverb is only the Vibrato channel.
  • The Alemic F-2B preamp and Sarnos SMS tubepreamps are based on one channel of the Twin Reverb
...but you could do it with most (if not all) channels in the vintage Fender family.
 
Last edited:

jondom22

Member
Messages
1,366
What about taking the vibrato out of the vibrato channel? Would that screw it up?
ya, but what's the point of doing that? Are you looking to basically have the 1st channel tone but with reverb? It's probably easier to just jumper the reverb to the 1st channel if that's the case.

I'm not an amp expert but the difference in tone between channels 1 and 2 on a BF/SF Fender is very minimal that a few resistors/caps or possibly a different pot or 2 would make them similar. A lot of people clip the bright cap on the 2nd channel of bf/sf deluxe reverbs for example, and a lot of people mod the 1st channel for a more bassman/tweed type of tone. My sf deluxe reverb is modded so that the reverb/vibrato works on both channels, the 1st channel is modded to sound more tweed/bassman like (darker, more mids, more distortion/tube saturation), and the second channel modded to blackface specs. Gives you the best of both worlds and also gives you the option to run it as a 2 channel amp with an A/B box that you can go between a clean bf sound and a hot-rodded tweed sound.
 
Messages
643
ya, but what's the point of doing that? Are you looking to basically have the 1st channel tone but with reverb? ..
Well.. the 2nd channel has a mid control and I find it very useful.. plus, the two channels do not sound the same. I just don't use the vibrato & I want to build a custom head that is smaller.
 

wyatt

Member
Messages
4,167
What about taking the vibrato out of the vibrato channel? Would that screw it up?
Removing the vibrato circuit's load means a hotter signal going into the PI. A simple resistor can substitute if desired.

I have to ask...these are pretty basic circuit questions you are asking. How do you plan to get up to speed enough to design and build the amp?

Have you considered an Allen Amps kit? Accomplice, Accomplice Jr, and Old Flame are all trem-less BF designs.
 

Figaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,016
Removing the vibrato circuit's load means a hotter signal going into the PI. A simple resistor can substitute if desired.
Yep, disconnecting the Vibrato (tremolo) increases gain a little and you can install a switch to switch back and forth. I prefer the sound with it disconnected but I also like tremolo so the switch is great to have. Fender's 64 Vibroverb Custom has this mod. The Vibrato (tremolo) circuit is one reason for the difference in the sound of the 2 channels on blackface/silverface Fenders. The other reason is because of the reverb circuit in the Vibrato (tremolo) channel.
 
Messages
643
...How do you plan to get up to speed enough to design and build the amp? ..

Well.. that's what I'm doing here. :)

I've built one kit amp. I blew some **** up & had to get help but it works now.

To be honest, I'm not really interested in being an amp guru.. I just know exactly what I like and exactly what I want in a guitar amp, I want a quality, hand wired build that I can be very familiar with at the minimum price and I'm good at making ****... especially with wood and metal.

..Have you considered an Allen Amps kit? Accomplice, Accomplice Jr, and Old Flame are all trem-less BF designs.
Will check them out. Thanks!
 

wyatt

Member
Messages
4,167
... especially with wood and metal.
15% October Sale at Allen. And then make your own head cab.

Accomplice Jr - 22 watts with 6V6GT's, 35 watts with 6L6GC's. Chassis only kit is $680 (after discount) with top-notch parts, instructions, layout, and email tech support. If you need 40 watts, the Old Flame chassis kit is $810 on sale.

Master volumes! Yuck. :(
Post-PI Master Volume, dial it to "10" and it's not even there. Use it when needed.

The MV and the RAW control were super effective in my old Accomplice for dialing it in just right.
 






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