2 Same Guitars. Same Everything. Identical. Different Tension?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by ruger9, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    The looser tension one is WELL BELOW that of the other. .500 for the higher tension one, <.375 for the looser one.... so is that neck angle?
     
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  2. PeterG

    PeterG Member

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    Variations of:
    The neck angle to the body
    The way the nut is cut
    Saddle height
     
  3. korus

    korus Member

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    It might be neck angle also, but I think it is thicker/higher, greater sum of 2 values = neck heel + neck pocket of body underneath the neck heel. You can now measure these 2 thicknesses separately on both guitars.

    There are 3 options:
    - necks are equally thick at heel, but neck pocket is thinner on looser guitar
    - neck pockets are equally thick, but neck is thinner at heel on looser guitar
    - both neck heel and neck pocket are thinner on looser guitar

    (neck pocket - the part of it that supports neck, underneath the neck heel, where the neck plate is, from back of the body - neck plate - to back of the heel of the neck)

    Surely, if guitars are the same model, final test is to exchange necks and you will be sure by your experience. Looser guitar will become a bit stiffer and stiffer will become a bit looser but difference should be less ... if both measured values are less on looser one.

    Then at some point in time you may decide to sand the heel off of neck on stiffer one to make it thinner and bring strings lower in regards to pick-guard. It is too early to decide, cause sending is irreversible. I don't know if you intend to keep both guitars.

    note: measure string height at 2 points again : at neck end/ neck pickup and in front of bridge plate - to verify the strings are parallel to pick-guard on both or not, and if they have similar neck angle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  4. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    I do think the guitar is a keeper. I've already had it for about 4 years, and I do love it- especially now that I finally found the right pickups for it. Which would be easier: routing the bottom of the neck pocket deeper, or sanding the back of the neck? (not sure how much wood there is, in regards to the truss rod)?

    The strings are parallel to the body on both. So it's neck pocket depth and not neck angle. Because this is indeed a mod I would consider having done.
     
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  5. voodoochili12

    voodoochili12 Supporting Member

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  6. korus

    korus Member

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    You need to contact a couple of luthiers what do they think is easier to be executed precisely AND at the same time 'safe' from damage. My guess thinning the neck is a better option. And ask for the cost of doing it, at the same time :), so you can choose optimal option.

    Can you try exchanging necks on these 2 guitars?
     
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  7. RCM78

    RCM78 Member

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    This is what I would do... One neck probably flexes more than the other.
     
  8. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    I could, but I wouldn't bother. I think I've been shown, convincingly, what must be happening. Between the higher neck and the string trees, as well as the higher nut... it seems to add up.
     
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  9. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    How would neck pocket depth and/or neck heel thickness change string feel? This thread has me scratching my head. Neck angle, yes (if it affects geometry behind saddle).
     
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  10. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    well, wouldn't a higher-sitting neck require the saddles to be raised higher off the body, thereby increasing geometry (break angle) behind the saddle?
     
  11. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    You already said the stiffer one has less break. I'm out.
     
  12. korus

    korus Member

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    You can make nut slots/dents also shaped properly - 'half of the circle' cross section, a bit of an arc from fretboard towards tuners and smoother in it - no sharp break 'lines' across and no 'lines' along.
     
  13. korus

    korus Member

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    Also, higher the strings above pickguard - BRIGHTER the tone. It is strange, because we have 2 break angles:
    - at saddle
    - at bridge plate hole

    I do not know empirically which of these 2 contact points create greater friction - so guitar becomes stiffer. You make one less steep while making the other more steep, so ... I do not know the optimal relation. Maybe equal?

    I call others to chime in, I do not know the exact explanation why when strings are higher above pickguard/bridge plate it make the guitar stiffer, all other dimensions being excatly the same.
     
  14. Billyzoom1

    Billyzoom1 Supporting Member

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    I've had the same exact issue. One of my Hamers feels a little more slinky than the other, and all else is the same, including the setup numbers. I gave u trying to figure it out and just enjoy it.
     
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  15. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Supporting Member

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    Exactly.......
     
  16. jblake

    jblake Member

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    It’s just the nature of something made out of wood; there will be variances. I have two Strats that are identical in every way, but one of them feels stiffer. With 9s it feels the same as the other one does with 10s, so I just string them accordingly.
     
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  17. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    LOL. Yes, I did. However, I was merely pointing out the GEOMETRY you were asking about. I doesn't apply to THESE 2 guitars for other reasons (discussed above), just that a higher neck = higher saddle = increased break angle = THAT'S how it can affect the geometry behind the bridge, which is what you specifically asked.
     
  18. Mike Duncan

    Mike Duncan Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I have two factory set-up PRS DGTs that have completely different tension. It's really weird. I will say that I believe the wood has a lot to do with the feel.
     
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  19. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    Ah... see, this is also what I think. Break angle beyond the "used" part of the string shouldn't matter... 25.5" is what matters (same string, same gauge, tuned to same pitch). However, people DO report top-loading teles having a slinkier feel, so...
     

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