2 Same Guitars. Same Everything. Identical. Different Tension?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by ruger9, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    I was going to post "you have TWO DGTs??? I'd settle for ONE"... then I realized who I was talking to, LOL
     
  2. dukeh62

    dukeh62 Supporting Member

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    Two different pieces of wood is your answer.
     
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  3. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    They absolutely are slinkier. It is physics. Read about the four diagrams. Suspension bridges and guitar strings are not so different. With bridges, the cable angle and length past the towers affects the mainspan behavior.
     
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  4. GreatSatan

    GreatSatan Member

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    bridge height, intonation, neck relief etc.
     
  5. CaptNasty

    CaptNasty Member

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    I think that perceived tension is about two things: the feel when depressing a string and the feel when bending a string.

    I use a light touch when playing so anything that lets me use as little energy as possible against the fretboard is desirable.
     
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  6. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    That's an interesting point. I can say that BENDING is where I am noticing the higher tension (or at least noticing it MORE), moreso than simply fingering chords or notes. But it stands to reason that's because a bend adds so much more tension to the string than fingering it against a fret does, even if the action is high.
     
  7. COYS

    COYS Supporting Member

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    If the "tension" is different then you need to tune one of them.
     
  8. Robert Libutti

    Robert Libutti Member

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    Jumping in after not reading a ton of these posts, so maybe someone said something already (ha). Could it be the flex in the maple from tree A vs tree B? Just the whole system flexes imperceptibly, but enough to effect feel? I have a guitar that, as an extreme case, actually can go out of tune depending how you old it (neck wobble). Could there be some micro flex in one neck vs the other?
     
  9. ruger9

    ruger9 Member

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    This indeed what some are saying. The only way to prove it is to swap the necks, and I'm not going to that much trouble LOL. It's not that big a deal, but I was curious and have learned some things in this thread, both about string tension and about my particular guitars.
     
  10. BlueRiff

    BlueRiff Member

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    I believe its the neck wood because the guitar models and set up but they aren't exactly the same. Neck wood on one guitar is more rigid.
     
  11. CaptNasty

    CaptNasty Member

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    Yep given the same scale length, same string gauge, and same tuning the tensions of each string will be the same.

    But the perceived tension can vary, as we see in this thread.

    A guitar with rough frets can have higher perceived tension when bending.

    A high nut cut or a high action can have higher perceived then depressing or bending strings.

    Many potential explanations, just have to run it down.
     
  12. goddot

    goddot Member

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    I have two historic les pauls that (due to my OCD tendencies) have been set up identically, exact same relief, bridge height, everything matches in terms of measurements …. but.... one feels less slinky than the other. The cuts in the nut are a little deeper in the one that plays stiffer so I always attributed the difference to the nut. If its not the nut, it would have to be the fact that they are not the same wood. There is/are no other explanation(s).
     
  13. ben777

    ben777 Member

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    This is a major factor... maybe the stiffer one is too high as well.

    The business card "String Action Gauge" is not really appropriate for measuring relief or nut action.. I would definitely not file a nut with a string action gauge as your measuring device. (Though you don't even need a measuring device for some methods.)

    Feeler gauges are really cheap and readily available, no excuse not to get some, the cheap automotive ones are fine. Measuring valve clearances in a car is a more demanding application on $$$ and safety than anything on a guitar. Realistically you don't even want the Stewmac set... it doesn't have small gauges... the automotive set will have 3x the # of gauges across a much wider range and cost 1/4-1/2 the stewmac one.
     
  14. motokev

    motokev Member

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    2 (same) guitars. Same everything. Identical. Different tension??

    I always wondered about this.

    I have two Warmoth strats that are set up identical to my Fender strat, but the Warmoth tension feels less stiff.

    My Warmoths are easier to play. That's why I always play them.

    They do have a different truss rod design.

    I always thought it was the 12-16 fret board radius.

    Interesting...….
     
  15. Possum Comitatus

    Possum Comitatus Member

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    Have you got a really accurate tuner? I presume you also don't have any exotic bridge assembly?

    Take the one that feels like it has the least tension, dampen the G string with a bit of cotton wool or something, then do a big bend on that G-string at around the 7th fret while measuring the open high E string on the tuner (it might take a bit of hand yoga to get right).

    If the E string goes flat during the bend, the tension in the strings is reducing most likely because of your neck and/or neck join flexing.

    Do the same with the stiffer feeling Tele. Does it go flat at all - or less flat during the bend?

    If so, then it's not in your mind - you are entirely sane.

    If it works the opposite, well.... that could be awkward :)
     
  16. Miroslav L

    Miroslav L Member

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    I have several guitars that are pretty much the same...with the main difference being the pickups.
    They are all set up the same way...same strings, actions, etc...and they all feel a little different.
    It's called "personality". :)

    I mean...I can go from a short scale to a long scale guitar...and yeah, they feel different, but it's not anything that makes me stop to take notice.
    I find the more I play them all, rather then sticking to one or two...the less I notice their little differences.
    They're all just guitars.
     
  17. tiktok

    tiktok Supporting Member

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    There's no such thing as two identical guitars.
     
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  18. Boris Bubbanov

    Boris Bubbanov Member

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    We're talking about the amount of tension on the truss rod, to enable the neck to stay with the relief it has. To what degree is that nut or other fastener cinched or torqued.
     
  19. jrockbridge

    jrockbridge Member

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    A screw driver and a change of strings is not much trouble. But, I understand that some people have a thing about removing a neck. Once you’ve done it a few times, you realize it’s simple. Some guitars require removing the neck to adjust the truss rod.
     
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  20. Billyzoom1

    Billyzoom1 Supporting Member

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    That's kind of his point.
     

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