2204 with PPIMV to make it more basement friendly?

andyk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,143
Every JCM800 I've owned had killer tone, but, the stock MV was either off, or, too loud - in 1mm of a turn! Really too loud for home use.

Would installing a LarMar help regulate/improve the stock MV? I envision keeping the LarMar at noon, and using the amps MV more effectively.

Does that make sense, compared to attenuating the hell out of the amp?
 

Laurent Brondel

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,270
The 2204 has a great master volume that actually sounds good at low volumes IMHO.
A PPIMV is totally redundant on that model and will not sound good at and below 1/2 the course.
Maybe clip the bright cap and the taper will be more usable on the pre, and/or use less efficient speakers.
Or use a good attenuator if you can't find usable tones at home volume, which surprises me…
 

gldtp99

Member
Messages
4,372
I've built 2204 based amps with both the normal pre PI MV and Lar/Mar PPIMV's.

My Marshall 4010 that I rebuilt with a turret board has the normal, stock MV and a PPIMV (also a Metro FX Loop)------ It can be used down to TV volume levels---- or anytime very low volume playing is necessary.

Do these amps sound their best at "Mouse Fart" volume levels ?

Of course not------ but it's a better solution than annoying the neighbors and ending up with a visit from the police.

No 50-100 watt full sized amp is going to sound as good as when it's cranked up and pushing a 4x12 when it's choked down to bedroom volume levels------ this is true when using an attenuator as well as using a PPIMV.

I recently picked up a Katana Mini amp for a friend------ little plastic 7 watt thing---- but it cranks and sounds wonderful as loud as I can play in my apartment----- I took it to my shop and ran it through the PA at loud band levels and it was disappointing------ but it sounds great in the apartment------ proper tool for the proper job.
 
Last edited:

andyk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,143
The stock MV usually goes from off to too loud quickly. I realize running any big amp really low won't sound as good as a cranked amp. But If installing a PPIMV will reduce the overall volume "jump" AND add a little PI tube sizzle - seems like win win. No?
 

gldtp99

Member
Messages
4,372
The stock MV usually goes from off to too loud quickly. I realize running any big amp really low won't sound as good as a cranked amp. But If installing a PPIMV will reduce the overall volume "jump" AND add a little PI tube sizzle - seems like win win. No?


Yes, this does work pretty well and a PPIMV is much less expensive than most attenuators------I'll run the preamp vol and orig MV up high and control the overall vol with the PPIMV on my 4010 (50 watt Marshall 1x12 combo) when playing at home for gained-out tones.

But this is TGP and somebody will come along and say this method is no good and we'd have to use some elaborate re-amping system or some other complex/expensive idea.

Yes a PPIMV will work ok---it will allow more detailed adjustment of low volumes----- just don't expect it to sound like a cranked up amp through a 4x12.
 

Jr Deluxe

Member
Messages
3,690
Get an orange crush 12 watt for playing that low. your marshall wont sound like a marshall at that volume. It will sound like an uninspiring buzzy buzz box. and now your marshall has been modded and joins the ranks of hacked marshalls. like the other guy said. Get the right amp for the job.
 

andyk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,143
I've had several 1959/1987 Marshalls that I installed LarMars in. They sounded fine at super low volume while the kids were sleeping. I just always wanted more gain and I'm betting the 2204 would provide that. Here is a killer sample from youtube (tone wise, not content):

 
Last edited:

JJman

Member
Messages
994
The problem you are referring to is with the taper of the pot. Get a new pot with a more logarithmic taper. Maybe the stock ones are linear? Larmar is cool and I like mine on homebrews and my '71SFDR but that's really a separate topic from correcting a taper issue.
 

andyk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,143
The problem you are referring to is with the taper of the pot. Get a new pot with a more logarithmic taper. Maybe the stock ones are linear? Larmar is cool and I like mine on homebrews and my '71SFDR but that's really a separate topic from correcting a taper issue.

Makes sense. Some amps have nice, even taper pots that are nice and firm to turn. Most 30 year old JCM 800 pots are loose and don't taper well.

So on the later 2204's - with the pots on the board, are there better-tapered new replacements that will fit right on there?
 

MKB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,315
I've tried PPIMV's in a few 2204 types, and did not like them at all. The preamp would overdrive the PI too much and it would turn into a fuzzy farty mess. Part of the Marshall magic is getting the stage gains balanced properly, and the 2204 with a PPIMV tilts it too far in the preamp's direction IMHO.
 

mAx___

Member
Messages
1,005
If you have a basement, nothing beats a good DIY isolation cab. Play at full volume anytime and don't bother anybody while your speakers are being pushed like it's 1971.
MVs of any kind choke the amp to death at low volumes by removing the power valves' contribution from the equation. A good attenuator is a much better alternative than a MV, but if the speakers are not being pushed hard enough, the resulting sound is going to be missing a big part of what makes for a great guitar tone.
A DIY iso cab for a 4x12 is just $200 worth of wood cuts at the Home Depot and around $250 worth of 2" acoustic foam to cover the interior. Easier to make than an IKEA bed and it works like a charm. As an example, I recently recorded a video with a 200W Marshall Major at full volume in my house (where I can hear everything my neighbours do outside) and nobody had to call the police. It's in my signature if you're interested.
 
Last edited:

JimSoprano

Member
Messages
389
I've tried PPIMV's in a few 2204 types, and did not like them at all. The preamp would overdrive the PI too much and it would turn into a fuzzy farty mess. Part of the Marshall magic is getting the stage gains balanced properly, and the 2204 with a PPIMV tilts it too far in the preamp's direction IMHO.
Was this with the stock MV in place as well? Or did you replace the stock MV with a PPIMV?
 

Dannyz

Member
Messages
2,682
It could be a lot of fun a JCM800/1987 circuit with both regular MV and PPIMV. When you want JCM 800 toanz, crank the PPIMV and set the output volume with the MV as a regular JCM. But then when you want Plexi toanz, dime the MV and use the the PPIMV to control the output.
 




Top Bottom