30w speaker in a 40w combo??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by guitarnut_1, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. guitarnut_1

    guitarnut_1 Member

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    Is it OK to put a 30w speaker into my fender blues deluxe (40w)? I never play at full power, so is there a danger of blowing the slightly underpowered speaker?? I usually never play past 3-4....

    Thanks
     
  2. wilto

    wilto Member

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    If it was me it wouldn't worry me. But i am sure there will plenty of disgust around the issue.
     
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  3. sliberty

    sliberty Member

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    No one can know for sure what will happen. This is why it is not advisable. You may get away with it and you may not. Pedals can cause clipping which can put more strain on a speaker than pure clean tones for example. I usually play it very conservative, and use speakers that can handle at least 50% more power than the amp puts out. But that's just me.
     
  4. Multicellular

    Multicellular Supporting Member

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    I usually do similar..better safe than sorry. That said, 'watts' are really subjective units. Better to search for an info about that particular speaker. Best guess in general, youd probably be fine.
     
  5. HoboMan

    HoboMan Silver Supporting Member

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    I personally wouldn't do it.
     
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  6. guitarnut_1

    guitarnut_1 Member

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    I am pretty sure one of Mesa's 100w combos (Mark V???) uses a 90w speaker.... so it shouldn't be an issue I think.

    I can't imagine playing that blues deluxe Fender at 40w full power, it would break my window glasses and make me deaf.
     
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  7. lowpaygigs

    lowpaygigs Member

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    Check with the maker of the speaker. Secondly, think about the guys using the badcat unleash that adds a lot power to an amp. It is possible, if done thoughtful. Listen to what is happening with the speaker.
     
  8. AD1982

    AD1982 Member

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    Mesa Mark V is a 90-watt amp.

    I personally wouldn't do it.
     
  9. sliberty

    sliberty Member

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    First, just because one manufacturer does the "wrong thing" doesn't mean it is safe in a totally different amp. It might not even be safe in that first amp.

    Second, I am quite sure that the speaker manufacturer will tell you that if you apply more power to their speaker than it is rated for, that you "might" do damage - what else could they say? They have to protect their butts. That would be a useless conversation.

    Its up to you - you are taking a chance. It might be OK. But if it blows your speaker, you will put palm to face and say "Doh!". You've be warned.
    ----
    Can I drive further than 50 miles on one of those 50 mile doughnut spare tires if I only drive on smooth roads and at 25 mph or less?
    Can I go swimming less than 30 minutes after eating a big meal?
    Can I operate heavy machinery on allergy medicine?
    ----
    Maybe - maybe not. Anyone who gives you a definitive YES doesn't really care whether you blow your speaker or not.
     
  10. guitarnut_1

    guitarnut_1 Member

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  11. guitarnut_1

    guitarnut_1 Member

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    I doubt Mesa would do such a basic thing "wrong". This is not a HIDDEN flaw or something this is a design decision on one of their long time flag ship amps.
     
  12. sliberty

    sliberty Member

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    So you choose to believe that the 90 watt speaker can handle 100 watts in a Boogie...ok....i'll bite. Which one of them is lying then? Is the 100 watt amp not really putting out 100 watts, or is the 90 watt speaker really underrated by enough so that it should be able to handle the 100 watts? Or maybe, Mesa has no intention of standing behind the speaker if you blow it anyway? Not a lot of valid explanations here.

    Power handling ratings are there for a reason. Exceed them, and you are on your own. No warranty will cover you. Noone will say "man, thats not fair".
     
  13. zenas

    zenas Member

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    I look at it this way. A lot of amps were built with speakers that'd blow pretty fast if you cranked the amp. Like a BFTR with Jensen C12Ns. But a lot of those didn't blow simply because not everyone cranked them.
    Both of my TRs would probably blow the speakers I run if I cranked them. It's just not very likely I'll ever crank them.
    So it really comes down to the way your using the amp. I think you'll be fine here. But I wouldn't put that in writing. :)
     
  14. guitarnut_1

    guitarnut_1 Member

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    most speakers also handle some tolerance ABOVE the declared wattage. That's a fact to consider as well.
    And I guess this is exactly why Mesa have used the 90w Celestion C90 on the Lonestar 112 combo. There are PLENTY of other 100w+ speakers out there, but no, they put this 90w speaker in there, because they are stupid. This is not serious. Sorry.


    AFAC "cranking the amp", I will never ever run this amp at possibly even 30w power, it would kill me. It's a an extremely loud amp. (fender Blues Deluxe). I keep it on 2 or 3 most of the time.
     
  15. kimock

    kimock Member

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    As long as you keep it reasonable with the volume and effects you shouldn't have a problem.
    I've used a Vintage 30 under a blonde Bassman, no problem.
    That's probably equivalent to your set up with the impedance mismatch, I beat it pretty hard. It was fine.

    The upside down power handling situation I abused most was a reconed Jensen P12-N with a 50 watt Dumble.
    I really beat the crap out of that speaker.
    The most likely cause of speaker failure with more or less the same power handling as the amp is from heat.

    If you hold the amp in clipping long enough, the speaker can't dissipate the heat, the glue holding the voice coil together melts, the wire unravels, binds in the gap, and the speaker's ruined.
    We just went thru that routine on another thread. .

    Anyway, the good news with the combo is you can just reach back and feel the magnet.
    If it's room temperature, there's no way the speaker's hot enough to melt the glue.
    If it's kinda warm, it's still fine.

    That P12-N under the 50 watt amp would be almost too hot to touch and the whole room would smell like glue before I'd give it a break, and I've abused that speaker like that for going on 15 years now.
    It still sounds great, might be my fave speaker.

    There's no guarantee either way, sometimes stuff fails when you use it responsibly, sometimes stuff will endure endless abuse. Sometimes a speaker will be bad right out of the box.

    Bottom line is the speaker's a motor: if you're really running it hard and it starts to get hot and smell funny, back off. Same as any other motor.

    I'd go for it, just pay attention to the heat and odor, and realize you're gonna have to run the speaker loud and continuously to hurt it playing straight guitar.

    It's possible to wreck a speaker on one hard attack with too much cone excursion too, but I'm thinking you'd need an octave divider and a bunch of additional boost and gain to accomplish it immediately.

    I'm obviously one of those guys in the "you're gonna run it till it blows up anyway" camp, so if you're super risk-adverse, ignore me and play it safe.
     
  16. Suave Eddie

    Suave Eddie Member

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    Ask your doctor if lobotomy is for you.
    Does it matter if the speaker rating is 75% of the Amp rating, as opposed to 90%?
    My Lonestar as noted has a speaker rated at 90 watts and the amp is rated at 100, which is much closer than the 30 watt speaker in a 40 watt amp.
     
  17. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    For best protection of the speaker it generally considered that 2x speaker RMS vs Amp RMS.

    RMS is only a measure of Thermal output and capacity.

    30 watt speaker with a 30 watt amp is not the best case scenario, for the speakers life. It gives no added Electrical Headroom, for lack of a better term.
     
  18. kimock

    kimock Member

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    Probably has more to do with how you play it than some ratio of amp to speaker rating.
    I've cooked a JBL or two with a 60 watt Boogie, but it takes all night and a lot of volume, gain, and sustain to do it.
    Alcohol may have been a contributing factor as well.
     
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  19. Suave Eddie

    Suave Eddie Member

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    Ask your doctor if lobotomy is for you.
    Yeah, maybe the alcohol loosened up the glue on the speaker.

    During your years at Mesa, did they ever take seriously the "conventional wisdom" of using a speaker with twice the power handling capacity of the amp? Obviously the EVs were never an issue.
     
  20. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I think the "twice" thing is a good rule of thumb, idiot-proof, fail-safe, etc.
    Sure didn't seem like they were taking it at face value with the early "iconic Carlos" 1x12 Boogie + Altec routine tho.
    It's kinda like the conventional wisdom of "one car length for every ten miles an hour", nobody really disagrees that that IS the conventional wisdom, but not many folks take it seriously.
     
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