4x10 VS 2x12

[humbert]

I'm singing the 4x12 blues recently: it's got a cold, cold tone. Too much beamy highs, too much rumbly bass, and not enough air and mids.

And coupled with a Fender, you KNOW I mean too much bass.

So I'm looking to trim this baby down and get some more air and midrange.

My two options right now are as such:

A 4x10 cab (Marshall? Avatar?), possibly with the bottom two speakers pulled (aka "detuned"). This should break up the closed-back standing waves problem and give a little bit more open-back feel, with the tightness of closed.

A 2x12 ported cab (Freda). These are closed back, but ported so that the air gets pushed out, removing standing waves and doomphiness.


So here's what I'm worried about. I'm trying to sweeten highs and reduce bass grumble. Just a tad. Freda brags about how deep and resonant sounding his 212s are, and I wonder if it won't be more of the same problem. I've been searching for 12" speakers that emphasize the mids over the bass and treble, but I can't seem to find any. 10s, on the other hand, seem to do this naturally. But I'm not looking to completely overhaul my tone: I don't want to wind up with a vowel-shaped, barky EQ.

I really wish there was some way I could try these out before buying. Any opinions would help.

 

[GearHeadFred]

I too did the 4x12 thing for years.. Got tired of the size and beamy highs.. Went to an Avatar 2x12 closed-back initially (loaded with Emi Gov/Swamp). It was better in that it's less beamy.. but still pretty rumbly in the bass.. Perhaps the Swamp may be adding to this..

I still have the 2x12 for outdoor shows.. but I'm really liking the 4x10 oval-back Avatar.. I loaded it with Warehouse 10's and I'm really happy with it. Not beamy at all - very well dispersed tone - no rumble, and a nice mid focus.

I'm driving these with a Super Reverb in a head cab...

I have a JTM45 clone on it's way to me... I imagine the 2x12 may work better for this amp... can't wait to try it!!

 

[humbert]

let me know, fred. I'm playing a Dual Showman, which is a bit of a weird bird.

Lee Ronaldo from Sonic Youth is also doing the SR head into a closed-back 4x10.

And I think Lee has great tone.

 

[dave s]

An open-back 410 is going to provide a 'wall of sound' and a more vintagey tone, if that's what you're looking for. I used a Bogner open-back for awhile and really liked it.

Avatar makes a pretty nice 212. I went with an open back 212 which just has an oval cutout. Mine was loaded with G12H30s and made for a very versatile cab. Still punchy on the low-end, but also cleaned up nicely when clean tones were run through it.

dave

 

[AL30]

First off a big :AOK for mentioning Lee Renaldo. Onto the question.

What type of guitar are you using and what type of music are you playing?

I'm currently running a BF Bassman into a Marshall 4x10" and I love it. The 4x10" is tight, punchy, and a little more in your face.

I have also run it through an open back 2x12". I like the 12"'s - the open back disperses the sound very well and it's a little more loose sounding. But it doesn't work well for the type of music I'm playing now.

I think it depends on what your looking for - both are good options.

Is that a Dual Showman Reverb? I have a Quad Reverb (same amp) and I never ran the bass over 2. If it's just a Dual Showman I would still recommend not turning the bass up - lots of it available on those amps for some reason.

AL

 

[GearHeadFred]

let me know, fred. I'm playing a Dual Showman, which is a bit of a weird bird.

Lee Ronaldo from Sonic Youth is also doing the SR head into a closed-back 4x10.

And I think Lee has great tone.

I should clarify.. My Avatar 4x10 is partially open (oval) back.. I don't know if they make a closed-back 4x10 or not.

 

[humbert]

AL30:

I play a Les Paul with p90s, into a Barber LTD and a Hotcake. The tone I'm shooting for is that Sonic Youthy/Ventures clarity and grind for the OD tones and some serious thick Neil Youngishness when I kick on the Hotcake. Also have a compressor that I use like a boost to get some more gain from the pedals.

My Showman is not the reverb. I play with the bass knob on 0. ZERO. I enjoy my Avatar 4x12 a lot, but I've sold it because I want to tighten up that bass. There is still too much on zero. FYI, it had Eminence Legend GB12 and Legend V12s, which are really high-wattage Celestion clones.

Also, the smaller size aids with portability. We toured a four-piece in a Chevy Astro last summer with the seats taken out. I felt bad about taking up the most room.

 

[bosstone]

I'm a fan of the Marshall 1965B 4 X 10" cabs. I sold my Hiwatt 4 X 12" cab and haven't missed it.

 

[mprvise]

My Dr Z 4X10 has seen more gig duty with mulitple amps in the last year than all other cabs combined. dave s mentioned the "wall of sound" thing - and that's a fitting description. That said...

I recently got a ported 2X10 (Port City) and I'm absolutely loving it.

 

[humbert]

Yeah, I hear the Dr. Z has got a floating baffle.

And I also hear I haven't got what he wants for one of those sweet things.


Anyone know how to rig up a floating baffle in something cheaper, like an Avatar or the 1965B?

 

[fjam82]

anybody have experience with the celestion g10's? are they considered dark or bright for a 10' speaker?

 

[bosstone]

I have G10L-35's and G10S-50's. Neither are bright. Either might be considered somewhat dark. I say they are just right.