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50-60Hz hum cancelling

muff77

Member
Messages
186
Hi

I've read that 50-60Hz hum can't be eliminated by conductive sheilding. How do you deal with this on single coils?

Thanks for your help!
 

LReese

Member
Messages
2,163
I like the Suhr SSC units - the I and II in those guitars are both great, but the SSCII is only available in a new Suhr. I'm only a week in with my SSCII, so its still honeymoon phase with that unit - it works as advertised so far.

There's side by side pickups and stacked pickups - always found after a while there's something I did not like with those.

Ilitch markets the old version of the SSC and the Backplate version unit as well as a couple of versions. Sometime the old Suhr marketed versions of the backplate units will pop up on various emporiums.

There's also options of just dealing with the hum.... Turn the guitar in a way it picks up less hum.
 

brianr0131

Member
Messages
4,439
It cannot be eliminated by shielding.....RF hum and noise can but definitely not 60 cycle hum.

Ilitch is the best way to keep real singles and eliminate hum IMO.

A good gate works well also but it seems to have a greater effect on tone than the Ilitch system does.
 

chervokas

Member
Messages
6,839
There's not too much you can do. As others have noted, the best solution is probably to use something like a dummy coil, or a pickup built with a stacked dummy coil, or something like the Illitch system to try to cancel the hum though you will slightly darken the overall tone of the pick ups.

Althernatively you can try to use some kind of notch filter to eq the hum out of the signal.

Of course doing your best to identify and eliminate environmental sources of radition causing the hum in the first place is important too.
 

brianr0131

Member
Messages
4,439
or something like the Illitch system to try to cancel the hum though you will slightly darken the overall tone of the pick ups.
I think slightly is actually an overstatement. It's pretty much in-detectable to my ears and I have 3 systems. They're not cheap though.
 

LReese

Member
Messages
2,163
I think slightly is actually an overstatement. It's pretty much in-detectable to my ears and I have 3 systems. They're not cheap though.
I don't profess to have great hearing, but I agree. One of my SSCv1's has the switch to turn it on and off. Was experimenting with it one day and thought I did hear the difference - it was like a small fraction of say, the difference between a low and mid cap cable. LOL - more likely it was just in my head - the difference was that small.

I'll leave it on from now on and be blissfully ignorant its there. :)
 

dazco

Member
Messages
15,297
Shielding IMO is a tradeoff. Shielding ALWAYS affects the high end. You may not hear it if your ears aren't very sensitive to subtle changes. You see people saying it works great and doesn't affect tone, but you also see people saying they don't hear a difference between maple and rosewood fingerboards, which is something that is night and day different to my ear. So those who don't hear the tonal effect of shielding likely are the same guys who can't hear the fingerboard difference or other things like that. If the pickups already have some of the highest frequencies rolled of in thier design, that may be another reason it won't nbe heard, and in that case maybe by most everyone. But that isn't going to be the case with most full range single coils. I use real SC's, vintage style usually, and shielding IMO will give you a tone similar to noiseless SC's. Most anything you do to quiet them is usually a tonal compromise. I never used the suhr thing, and i'm sure from what i have read it works well. But using dummie coils affects tone. The only thing i know of that i CAN'T say this about is that suhr thingy whatever it's called. I know guys who are well known world class players who use them so i have no reason to doubt it. But short of that i believe theres nothing that doesn't affect the tone. If you can live with it then you're lucky. I can't.
 

buddaman71

Student of Life
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
12,912
My Tom Anderson Hollow Classic strat style has the stacked humbuckers, but, except on high gain patches or in venues with noisy AC power, I always leave it switched in single coil mode and live with a little hum. I just really miss the extra sparkle and presence lost when kicking in the stacked hum coil.
 

ilitch

Member
Messages
82
We have developed many aftermarket applications of the Noise canceling system since the original BPSSC. We now cover most guitar models and are working on our newest development for 5 string jazz bass.

Ilitch

I like the Suhr SSC units - the I and II in those guitars are both great, but the SSCII is only available in a new Suhr. I'm only a week in with my SSCII, so its still honeymoon phase with that unit - it works as advertised so far.

There's side by side pickups and stacked pickups - always found after a while there's something I did not like with those.

Ilitch markets the old version of the SSC and the Backplate version unit as well as a couple of versions. Sometime the old Suhr marketed versions of the backplate units will pop up on various emporiums.

There's also options of just dealing with the hum.... Turn the guitar in a way it picks up less hum.
 

off2kamp

Senior Member
Messages
967
Ugh I feel your pain. I moved into a new place in May and have horrible 60 cycle hum. My old place had ZERO. Both my Vinetto Tele and Strat sounded pristine. Good luck. I just turn east/west and it helps.
 

chervokas

Member
Messages
6,839
I think slightly is actually an overstatement. It's pretty much in-detectable to my ears and I have 3 systems. They're not cheap though.
Well you're adding some inductance so you're going to change the frequency balance some but I guess less with the low impedance air coil.
 

ilitch

Member
Messages
82
If we assume that the human ear can hear a difference in signal level of 3 dB the resistance and inductance contributed by the noise canceling system would change that signal level with 0.1-0.3 dB (which is insignificant).
To make a comparison, when we barely move down the volume pot on our guitar, the signal level changes with 1-3 dB.

Ilitch

Well you're adding some inductance so you're going to change the frequency balance some but I guess less with the low impedance air coil.
 

D.G.

Member
Messages
724
Hi

I've read that 50-60Hz hum can't be eliminated by conductive sheilding. How do you deal with this on single coils?

Thanks for your help!
Make sure your power supply is clean, and don't use a lot of distortion :)
 

doublescale1

Suhr S-Classic, V60LP's, Soft V neck
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,354
Do you self favor and contact Ilitch Electronics. They are very knowledgeable about the system that they at first liscensed to Suhr (which was marketed as the BBSSC, Back Plate Silent Single Coil) and have since that introduction and expiration of that exclusive marketing agreement come up with their second gen. version of the system. It is the only way to use real single coils, eliminate the 60 cycle hum and get all the fidelity and tone from your single coil pickups, Strat, Tele or P90's. While there are very good stacked humbucking single-coil-like pickups out there - this system is the only no-compromise true-tone way to kill the noise. I have put the BPSSC on two different Fender Strats (one reg and one EC) and have two Suhr's with the built-in system, a Strat classic and a chambered Tele w/2XP90's and they are dead quiet and sound great.
 

fr8_trane

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,105
It cannot be eliminated by shielding.....RF hum and noise can but definitely not 60 cycle hum.

Ilitch is the best way to keep real singles and eliminate hum IMO.

A good gate works well also but it seems to have a greater effect on tone than the Ilitch system does.
+1

There are TWO kinds of pickup noise.

1) RFI which is the buzz that goes away when you put your fingers on the strings - thus grounding them. That can be dealt with by shielding. In fact all guitars including those with Humbuckers SHOULD be shielded.

2) 50/60 cycle hum. This noise is NOT resolved by shielding and is inherent to the single coil design. The only way to get rid of it is by using a gate, stacked humbuckers (aka noiseless singles) true humbuckers or the illitch SSC system.

I have dimarzio area T's in my tele and LOVE them. that guitar was noisy as HELL with RFI before I had it shielded which proves that noiselss singles only solve HALF of the noise equation. i have also had noisy HB guitars that were poorly shielded.

My strat has the the illitch system because I'm WAY more picky about my strat tones than the tele and only real singles do it for me. The illitch ssc is only about 75% effective but it is a vast improvement over full noise singles.
 

Sancho

Member
Messages
632
I've been in touch with Ilitch, and I plan to buy one of their systems once I get my Classic Player Strat (should be november).
I've got Dimarzio noiseless single coils in my other Strats, and I am especially fond of the Virtual Vintage 54 Pro.

I've been messing around with a noise gate as well and it works OK, but with the NS2 I'm using now (I really need to get an MXR) the threshold can be tricky to get right.
 

doublescale1

Suhr S-Classic, V60LP's, Soft V neck
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,354
if your looking at noise gates, before you buy the MXR, try to play through an ISP Decimeter - I have both, had the MXR first, and the ISP made the MXR a backup - the ISP, at least to me, did much better on allowing notes to fade before kicking in - the cut-off of ring out on notes is way better with ISP, at least that was my experience. Doesn't hurt to try before you buy, if possible.
 

McStrats

Member
Messages
1,989
I found that 60 cycle hum and static buzz go hand in hand. DMZ Areas took care of both, and it was really bad before. I didn't do any shielding at all. Just put in the noiseless pu's and the buzz and hum went away.
 






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