61 Bandmaster Questions

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Lizard King, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    I just picked up a 1961 Bandmaster head & cabinet. The head is at the shop for a checkup. I have some cabinet questions.
    1. Someone replaced the 1x12 baffle with a 2x12 baffle. I have period correct Jensens in there but I was thinking about going back to 1x12. I saw one of these on CL with a JBL D131f. That would've been 16 ohms. Does the Bandmaster want a 16 ohm load or 8 ohms?
    2. What speaker(s) would've come in the 1x12 cab? Is the JBL 131 original?
    3. They also pulled the wood strips off the inside back panel, left the nails but tore off the insulation. I blame drugs because they must've dropped large quantities of LSD and decided to paint the tolex black. I dunno, maybe they dreamed they saw a red door and wanted to paint it black...fortunately they passed out before they ruined any more than the back. I can get the point off with lacquer thinner but they also replaced the screws with friggin drywall screws. Would the original screws have come with those cup shaped washers or just screws alone?


    Any information will be greatly appreciated!
    THANKS!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  2. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    I'm not en expert on the early 60's, but I believe that Jensen was original and stock to those. The speaker code on the rim can tell you if it is period correct. The JBL's were an upgrade and the D131 was the common early JBL. They had a very narrow groove for the voice coil which became problematic as volume increased and it was widened on the D120 that replaced it.

    http://ampwares.com/amplifiers/fender-blonde-bandmaster/

    I think the sense of reverence for history was pretty much nonexistent back then. When I started we all wanted the current and more modern silver face (they were drip edges at the time). Blackfaces look old... and tweeds... my lord, that was your Dad's amp or worse some country player. Many blonde and brown fenders were painted black.

    All the best in your restoration efforts. I love projects like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  3. ross

    ross Silver Supporting Member

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    Typically, if a Fender amp from that period only had 1 speaker (cab or combo) it was "looking" for an 8 ohm load. later bandmaster and bassman amps that shipped with 212 cabs were wired for 4 ohms.
     
  4. zenas

    zenas Member

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    Pretty easy to take the numbers that are on the output transformer then look at a chart to find the ohms rating. I'm sure you're tech will be able to tell you what it is.
    A little info here. http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/
     
  5. wgs1230

    wgs1230 Fully Intonatable Silver Supporting Member

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    1. 8ohms.
    2. There are examples of the '61-64 line with factory D-series JBLs, but Oxfords are much more common. The original 1x12 baffle included a so-called tone ring, which according to Fender “eliminates cancellation of front and rear radiation.” Here's one repro/restoration shop:
    http://www.beaverbottoms.com/FEATURES.HTM
    3. No cup washers on the originals.
     
  6. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    Thanks all! I was confused by the JBL because the d131f is 16 ohm. Currently has 2 16 ohms wired in parallel so I'll stick with 8 ohm.


    I am going to check out beaver bottoms for a tone ring.


    I'll have my tech look up the xformer rating just to be sure as you never know what Leo & the boys were up to.


    I have all kinds of 2x12 & 2x15 cabs I've been using with my Bassman heads so I think I'll return this one to original.
     
  7. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    One more thing....does anyone have a specific layout/diagram for a tone ring baffle board? I've found pics & stuff & it looks like 2 sheets of 1/2 plywood sandwiched over wood slats.

    Dimensions of inner & outer plywood?

    Hole diameters?

    Length width of inner sandwich boards? I've seen both 2" and 3".

    Some of the pics of cabs look like they have a square something on the front baffle board - you can see it through the grill cloth. Any idea what that is?


    Found tone rings on eBay for $90...
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  8. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    Check out that JBL with a multi meter... I'll bet money it reads around 6.2 ohm resistance which would indicate 8 ohm. JBL labeled the early drivers 16 ohm (because in most peoples opinion it doesn't hurt to mismatch) even though there were the same as the 8 ohm version. Much later they did manufacture 16 ohm... If you're 131 reads close to 12 ohm you likely have one that was later re-coned.
     
  9. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    I've owned a pair of 131s and had a friend who had another, and they did not sound like a D120/D120F, sort of thin and high-midrange emphasis. They sound great reconed to D120F specs by Weber, though.
     
  10. rockinrobby

    rockinrobby Senior member Professional musician ... Gold Supporting Member

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    I have a 61 Fender Bandmaster too.. The transformer is a 8 ohm tranny designed for a single 12" speaker.. I have a 30" wide Tone-ring cabinet w/ one JBLD 120F in the cabinet

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    Nice unit. I don't suppose you have any pics of the guts of the cabinet..... ;-)
     
  12. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    If the speaker cab's back panel has a row of screw holes down the center then it was always a 2x12 cab. No screw holes then it was a tone ring cab. I have a 1961 Bassman with the 1x12 cab and a tube rectifier.
     
  13. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    That was one of the key clues....NO screw holes down the middle.
     
  14. swiveltung

    swiveltung Member

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    AFAIK the Bandmaster was more common with 2 x 12 and 4 ohm. Is that not so for the '61?
    The single speaker versions should indeed be 8 ohm transformer.
    Many JBL's were labeled 8/16 ohm and you need to meaure to determine what the speaker is.

    later ... ah yes no bracing holes in the center... good catch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  15. swiveltung

    swiveltung Member

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    Way Cool bassman!
     
  16. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    I was reading about Showmans the other day and that they originally shipped with 8 ohm transformers and single speaker cabs... But later switched to 4 ohm and 2x cabs. Might be the same with the other head units?
     
  17. rockinrobby

    rockinrobby Senior member Professional musician ... Gold Supporting Member

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    61 Showman > 8 ohm tranny..

    [​IMG]
     
  18. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    Mine has an old brown Jensen alnico. I don't know what it came with. It also needs some electrical work but the outside of the cabs are at least 9 out of 10. I'm just holding on to it to sell someday. About 10 years ago I saw one at al Dallas Vintage Guitar show that someone was asking $3,800 for. I doubt he sold it. Since then we had the 2007 recession that dialed back the values on a lot of stuff so I'm not sure what they are worth now!
     
  19. jcs

    jcs Member

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    I've got a 62 Bandmaster with the stock 125A7A (8 ohm) Schumacher.

    Mine is ss rectifier and super high plate volts near 500.

    I ALWAYS use mine with a variac at about 112 volts because you cannot get high enough voltage caps in the doghouse....and I like headroom for caps at or near their capacity, let alone the stupid high wall volts that is common today.

    I've seen many of these in the $800 to $1500 range....the vibrato is a monster and these amps can get super loud but they have a lot of bottom end despite the small outout tranny.

    My 62 Bandmaster is as loud as my 71 Marshall Smallbox 50 thru an 8 ohm 4x12.

    I suspect many a 1x12 speaker got shelled by these Bandmasters, hence you always see a 2x12 replacement baffle!
     
  20. Lizard King

    Lizard King Member

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    I'm starting to figure it out as I completely disassembled the cabinet this weekend. All I need to know is the size of the inner baffle board (I can make a pretty educated guess) and the distance between the inner baffles - again I can probably figure that out when I get my tone ring. $80 on eBay - seems kind of expensive but I can't find them anywhere else.


    Thanks all!
     

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