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72 GH30's vs 81 12-65's

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
If you had a choice between a quad of 75hz 16 ohm GH30's from 72, or a quad of 16 ohm T3054 777 cone 12-65's from 81, which would yo choose.

I will be shipping from OS, so no way to try them out, and they will be going into a 82 1960a that has bass cone 12-65's that I'm moving on(way too dark)

I already have a 68 B cab with original '20' watt Greenbacks, a 78 A cab with 78 Blackback 30 watters on top and V30's on bottom, and a 82 JCM 4104 combo with original 12-65's. Love em all, though it's not really a fair comparison as the JCM combo is open backed. I've always wanted a quad of 12-65s, but for a few hundred more I can get the more 'classic' GH30's that I know will sound amazing.

Thoughts ??
 

louis

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,268
I have a 1971 4x12 cab with GH30's 75z and I bought a 1980 4x12 loaded with 65's
that I'll pick up tomorrow so I'll be able to a-b them .
 

rstites

Member
Messages
1,632
I love the 65's and have used them in my primary cabinets for decades now. However, I can't say anything about how they compare to the 30's.
 

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
Thanks for the replies so far.

I will be playing classic late 60's and 70's hard rock.....ACDC, Zep, Lizzy, the Angels, ZZ Top, Quo, with vintage 2203 (79,80,82) set at moderate crunch then boosted for solos/heavy.

Guitar is a 02 LP Std + with BB Pro's, but sometimes will be LP Specials with Duncans (Pearly Gates, Custom sh5)
 

rstites

Member
Messages
1,632
With my caveat above, I'd choose the G12-65's for that. My longtime rig was a 1979 Marshall 2203 w/ matching 4x12 loaded with the 65's. It was a killer base rig. I ran a boost out front, a flanger, and a wah. It was brutal and straight forward, and sounded great.

I still have the 4x12 and pair it with my SLO now.

I'm sure the 30's would sound great too. I'd still take the 65's fwiw.
 

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
It depends on the amp, H-30's would not be in the running with a Jcm for me.


Thanks for the input !!
When the 78 A cab had all 78 30 watt Blackbacks I loved the sound with the 82 JCM 2203. I blew 2 so threw in some broken in V30's and I'm so impressed how they blend with the remaining 2 Blackbacks, I think i will leave it that way. I think the bright cap has been fiddled with on my 800 because it's cleaner, darker and as vintage sounding as the 79 and 80 2203's , but maybe a stock 800 would be a bad mix with vintage GH30's.

In any case, maybe 12-65's are the ones to get. The one's in my 4104 certainly sound great.
 
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6,858
H Blackbacks have a certain mean bite to them that may just go well with a 2203. Obviously I have no idea asto why two of them blew on you, but I'd take particular care not to challenge them on purpose of the remaining two may fold of the same reasons. G12H30s in general would be a given recommendation for Led Zep and rhythm tones in general.

The 65s have this dark vibe yet with lots of presence. Obviously these are M speakers sans the mid hump of the coloured-backs. Likely a more versatile speaker w. the scoop of the H30 yet mid centred like an M25. Less of a chance blowing them as well. Some prefer them with V30s, but milages do vary and not all V30s are V30s.
 

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
H Blackbacks have a certain mean bite to them that may just go well with a 2203. Obviously I have no idea asto why two of them blew on you, but I'd take particular care not to challenge them on purpose of the remaining two may fold of the same reasons. G12H30s in general would be a given recommendation for Led Zep and rhythm tones in general.

The 65s have this dark vibe yet with lots of presence. Obviously these are M speakers sans the mid hump of the coloured-backs. Likely a more versatile speaker w. the scoop of the H30 yet mid centred like an M25. Less of a chance blowing them as well. Some prefer them with V30s, but milages do vary and not all V30s are V30s.


Yep, those Blackbacks sound great with all my 2203's. Instant live Zep and early ACDC.
I never really play THAT loud (and ive never blown a speaker before)but thinking back to how cheap the previous owner was selling it, I think he may have known they were on the way out. In any case, I'm not going to baby them....if a speaker can't handle reasonably loud band volumes, then it's useless to me. I've played the 68 cab at the same volumes and no problems.

Just not 100% sure on the 12-65's. They sound great in the 4104 combo, but ..... I can't help but think a quad of 72 H30's is going to closer to the classic 70's Marshall sound (the 68 12M's are flat out amazing) AND if I can find a early 70's cab to eventually throw them in, I'm going to have a very sought after piece of gear. A JCM cab with 12-65's might sound great, but it will never be as cool.
 

Vai81

Member
Messages
1,055
I will be shipping from OS, so no way to try them out,
Wow, are you shipping a quad from
OS to Aus? Must be super expensive!

I think you're on the right track with the blackbacks for the more vintage vibe you're looking for. I have a soft spot for g1265s though and still in search of a B straight cab locally
 

amphog

Member
Messages
4,312
Yep, those Blackbacks sound great with all my 2203's. Instant live Zep and early ACDC.
I never really play THAT loud (and ive never blown a speaker before)but thinking back to how cheap the previous owner was selling it, I think he may have known they were on the way out. In any case, I'm not going to baby them....if a speaker can't handle reasonably loud band volumes, then it's useless to me. I've played the 68 cab at the same volumes and no problems.

Just not 100% sure on the 12-65's. They sound great in the 4104 combo, but ..... I can't help but think a quad of 72 H30's is going to closer to the classic 70's Marshall sound (the 68 12M's are flat out amazing) AND if I can find a early 70's cab to eventually throw them in, I'm going to have a very sought after piece of gear. A JCM cab with 12-65's might sound great, but it will never be as cool.
If you did not have a 800 series, the H-30's might be the ticket, but there is something in the mids of those amps, and the 65's fix it for me.
 

rstites

Member
Messages
1,632
When the 78 A cab had all 78 30 watt Blackbacks I loved the sound with the 82 JCM 2203. I blew 2 so threw in some broken in V30's and I'm so impressed how they blend with the remaining 2 Blackbacks, I think i will leave it that way. I think the bright cap has been fiddled with on my 800 because it's cleaner, darker and as vintage sounding as the 79 and 80 2203's , but maybe a stock 800 would be a bad mix with vintage GH30's.
It's possible the amp has been modded. It's also possible it's just that amp. Marshall changed up individual pieces all the time. "We're out of 10 pF caps, just toss a 22 pF in there." Plus, all those components are +/-20% tolerance. They've now had 35-40 years to drift even more! All of those classic sounds we love were built with off-the-shelf, budget parts-of-the-week.

Btw, it'd be easy to tell. You just pull the chassis. Look for the gain control and and see if there's a capacitor connected between two lugs of it. I never did this as it doesn't do much when you turn up the gain past 1/2 or so.

Yep, those Blackbacks sound great with all my 2203's. Instant live Zep and early ACDC.
I never really play THAT loud (and ive never blown a speaker before)but thinking back to how cheap the previous owner was selling it, I think he may have known they were on the way out. In any case, I'm not going to baby them....if a speaker can't handle reasonably loud band volumes, then it's useless to me. I've played the 68 cab at the same volumes and no problems.

Just not 100% sure on the 12-65's. They sound great in the 4104 combo, but ..... I can't help but think a quad of 72 H30's is going to closer to the classic 70's Marshall sound (the 68 12M's are flat out amazing) AND if I can find a early 70's cab to eventually throw them in, I'm going to have a very sought after piece of gear. A JCM cab with 12-65's might sound great, but it will never be as cool.
After a nights sleep, I believe the correct TGP answer to you at this point is that you should get both and try them both because more is better and you'll always wander about the ones you didn't get! :)

On a more serious note, if you already have the 30's and like them, then the real question is whether you want more of what you have, or whether you want something different in your new speakers. I think that answers your question more than asking us. Either way, you're going to have great sounding speakers for that amp, so there's no bad choice.
 

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
Wow, are you shipping a quad from
OS to Aus? Must be super expensive!

I think you're on the right track with the blackbacks for the more vintage vibe you're looking for. I have a soft spot for g1265s though and still in search of a B straight cab locally


Na, just the 4 speakers, not the cab. But yes, it's just so hard to find vintage cabs here in AU. When I scored my 800 cab with 12-65's it was after a long time searching and I was stoked. Realising they were bass cones and nearly useless for guitar was a big letdown :(
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
8,656
If it were for my own 4 holers, the '72s all the way.
I have a bunch of pre Rola H30s, both 55 and 75, plus some Blackbacks - might well be some of the best guitar speakers ever. :love:
For your master volumes however, going by my '77 2204 (correct, later circuit) I guess I would prefer the 65s. :dunno

tough decision, good luck !
Rhino

mine were all really affordable btw, worst case 300 per quad, sometimes including a cab (with issues) - all in 2014 - 2016.
the good news for you - not a single bad speaker out of ca 20 ...
 
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BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
If it were for my own 4 holers, the '72s all the way.
I have a bunch of pre Rola H30s, both 55 and 75, plus some Blackbacks - might well be some of the best guitar speakers ever. :love:
For your master volumes however, going by my '77 2204 (correct, later circuit) I guess I would prefer the 65s. :dunno

tough decision, good luck !
Rhino

mine were all really affordable btw, worst case 300 per quad, sometimes including a cab (with issues) - all in 2014 - 2016.
the good news for you - not a single bad speaker out of ca 20 ...


Thanks for the input, yep I'm leaning towards the 12-65's at the moment.

Those are great prices for vintage speakers you got !! The H30's are in the UK and they want 950 US (will probably get them for about 800 US) while the 12-65's are in Italy and they want 650 US (realistically under 500 US ) add shipping and I'm looking at a decent investment. I could be patient and eventually snag some 12-65's here in AU much cheaper, but a quad of 72 H30's is going to be super rare, and I don't think they will be much cheaper.
 

ProfRhino

Member
Messages
8,656
Thanks for the input, yep I'm leaning towards the 12-65's at the moment.

Those are great prices for vintage speakers you got !! The H30's are in the UK and they want 950 US (will probably get them for about 800 US) while the 12-65's are in Italy and they want 650 US (realistically under 500 US ) add shipping and I'm looking at a decent investment. I could be patient and eventually snag some 12-65's here in AU much cheaper, but a quad of 72 H30's is going to be super rare, and I don't think they will be much cheaper.
ouch, that hurts ! :omg

sorry, don't want to spoil the party, but at these insane prices I would go with a quad of Reapers or ET-65 and call it a day.
or even Scumbacks (great, but also not cheap), whatever is better available down under, I know it ain't easy for you guys. :(
no H or M would be worth that much to me, especially sight unseen ...

The prices I quoted are true, but probably not accessible from abroad.
Local small ads, "old guitar cab with issues, cheap", watch these for a while, ask for photos or description on the phone, eventually something will come up. Go there, wave a few bills and more often than not people will accept and be happy to get rid of that "old junk".
I always measure DC resistance (though the Hs can vary from 11 to 14 Ohms ime) and "feel" the cone for rubbing, too.
I have yet to find a single steal at a dealer, well, maybe at a tiny village store with a lot of luck, but these are almost extinct by now.

As for WGS, iirc they charge you big for shipping, you might be better off checking conditions from retailers, probably worldwide.
You can subtract around 20% VAT off EU prices, so that might help, too.
The rest is AU specific.

I have quite a few WGS speakers, and considering they are new they get mighty close to the old ones.
A little bit more snappy, precise - nothing to lose sleep about once the drums come in.
I'd take them over current Celestions any day, except for the crimebacks maybe.

ymmv,
Rhino
 

BADHAK

Member
Messages
9,677
Sorry mate, but sadly for me, sellers in AU seem to be pretty hip to the prices vintage Marshall or Celestion gear currently commands. I spend WAY too much time on the local classifieds /Gumtree etc and the rarity of these products here combined with most having access to Google means a dead set bargain are super rare.

As for Celestion clones, I have a pair of WGS Green Berets and a pair of Scumback M75lhdc, and while they are great speakers(and sometimes vastly superior to Celestions modern offerings), for the 60's / 70's classic rock sound I'll take vintage Celestions anyday.
 






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