A question for those of you who have blown your Celestion Blues...

dehughes

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1,129
Just curious as to what the circumstances were when they exploded. Please do share...

I'm finding that the Blues can do no wrong, be it in small amps or large ones...they sound friggin fantastic regardless. My concern, however, is the large amp (50w TopHat Emplexador), as I've used a pair of them in my King Royale 2x12 (no problem...), but then that's 33w of AC30-ish insanity vs. 50w of Marshall insanity...not sure if that is equivalent.

Thanks,


david
 

fatback

Member
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3,693
I share your love for the Blue and have had a similar question. I even thought about having Bob Burt build me a 3x12 cab loded with Blues to get a little more power handling than a 2x12.
 

trisonic

Member
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13,156
Original Marshall 4 x 12's had the "silver" version of the Blue (identical specs apart from looks) they sound glorious.

Best, Pete.
 

ericb

Silver Supporting Member
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9,048
Only time I've ever had Blues at my house were in a friend's early 90 Vox Ac30 ... I played the amp on 7 for awhile thru the topboost channel using a FD2 .. Blew a BLUE... The only time I've had them , I blew one.. .hmmmmmmmmmmmm They sound great but (FOR ME) I'd watch their wattage ratings

ERIC
 

dehughes

Member
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1,129
Originally posted by ericb
Only time I've ever had Blues at my house were in a friend's early 90 Vox Ac30 ... I played the amp on 7 for awhile thru the topboost channel using a FD2 .. Blew a BLUE... The only time I've had them , I blew one.. .hmmmmmmmmmmmm They sound great but (FOR ME) I'd watch their wattage ratings

ERIC
Thanks. I know it is kinda morbid, but I figure if I gather people's "Blue death" experiences I'll be able to generally estimate their power handling, and general usage scenarios.

Anyone use them with Marshall 50w head-type amps, in 2x12 cabs?


david
 

908SSP

Member
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5,801
I use two blues in a JTM45 Bluesbreaker RI sounds really smooth and singing. I changed tubes and that is it so far I love the sound. I like it better then the GBs that were in there before. I also installed a Weber Mass50 on a sheet metal hook so it hangs inside on the back panel and run about 75% attenuation so I can crank the volume knobs at 3:00 thats 8 out of 10, or full up if I want to. But I like the drive better at 8. It isn't as loud as my AC30TBX(blues).:D

 

ericb

Silver Supporting Member
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9,048
Originally posted by dehughes
Thanks. I know it is kinda morbid, but I figure if I gather people's "Blue death" experiences I'll be able to generally estimate their power handling, and general usage scenarios.

Anyone use them with Marshall 50w head-type amps, in 2x12 cabs?


david
You're welcome.. I don't think any of the other posters read your question , as they're not posting what you asked. Anyway, they sounded great but that's my experience. Best of luck

ERIC
 

dehughes

Member
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1,129
Originally posted by 908SSP
I use two blues in a JTM45 Bluesbreaker RI sounds really smooth and singing. I changed tubes and that is it so far I love the sound. I like it better then the GBs that were in there before. I also installed a Weber Mass50 on a sheet metal hook so it hangs inside on the back panel and run about 75% attenuation so I can crank the volume knobs at 3:00 thats 8 out of 10, or full up if I want to. But I like the drive better at 8. It isn't as loud as my AC30TBX(blues).:D
Very nice...that's probably pretty close to my situation, except for the open back setup. I'm finding that, in general, I prefer the "middle half" of the volume sweep to be my favorite, in TopHat amps. That is, they sound good both down low and cranked, but they sound FANTASTIC in the middle half of the volume sweep. So, for speakers, I'm not as concerned, as they'd be seeing less power amp drive than they could, though with a 15w speaker I'm still going to take it relatively easy...

The other idea was to grab a Fane 100w Alnico and give it a go. No power handling worries there... :)


Thanks
 

dehughes

Member
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1,129
Originally posted by ericb
You're welcome.. I don't think any of the other posters read your question , as they're not posting what you asked. Anyway, they sounded great but that's my experience. Best of luck

ERIC
Yeah, but that's cool. Maybe the loss was just too traumatic to write about.... :)

I do agree that they sound fantastic, but fantastic isn't as fantastic when it can be directly followed by "$%@!, I blew a $250 speaker!", or two, or... :)


david
 

John Phillips

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13,040
No matter that there are loads of people who run them harder without apparently doing any damage, they are rated by Celestion at 15W for a reason.

Celestion are pretty conservative compared to most speaker manufacturers though, and their '15W' seems to mean "OK for a fully-cranked amp of up to 15W" - which isn't quite the same thing as 15WRMS, since some amps can put out up to almost twice the RMS power when fully distorted. What the peak power actually is depends a lot on the gain structure and power stage design.

IMO an AC30 is about the limit. I wouldn't run two with a JTM45, no matter that they are described as a '30W' amp these days - they're actually capable of a lot more in sustained distorted power. There's a good reason why Marshall changed the speakers to first 20s, then 25s, in the original Bluesbreakers in the late 60s... blown speakers. 'Loudness' isn't always an accurate enough guide either - the AC30 is a very good example of an amp that sounds a lot louder than it 'should', due to its voicing and dynamic response... but its the electrical power that blows speakers, not the perceived volume.

I have also seen a very large number of old AC30s with replaced speakers over the years (possibly even the majority, leaving aside near-mint examples that clearly haven't been out of the original owner's house), and although people did do things like putting bass or electric piano through them as well as guitar (sometimes together :eek: ), that does tend to show that an AC30 is capable of blowing them in power terms.

Basically, I would always use the maker's rating as an upper limit - there are even a fair number of exceptions the other way, eg old Fanes and Goodmans known to really handle not much more than half their marked power (probably by being 'correctly' rated for RMS, not for overdriven amps). I simply won't use speakers that are rated lower than the amp's output power at all. I can't remember how many blown speakers I've changed over the years (it's in the hundreds), and they were all done by putting too much power through them in one way or another.
 

dehughes

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1,129
Thanks John. I'm in line with that thinking, for the most part. I've never blown a speaker (thankfully), and want to keep it that way.

Another thing: Is it correct to think of each speaker in a 2x12 setup as receiving "half" of the amp's output power? That is, if you have a 100w speaker paired with a 15w speaker in the same cab, you can still (in theory) blow the 15w speaker if you push the cab with a 50w head. Correct?


david
 

abergdahl

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3,415
Originally posted by dehughes
Another thing: Is it correct to think of each speaker in a 2x12 setup as receiving "half" of the amp's output power? That is, if you have a 100w speaker paired with a 15w speaker in the same cab, you can still (in theory) blow the 15w speaker if you push the cab with a 50w head. Correct?


david
It is correct, the 15w speaker will recieve half (25w) of the potantial output. The amp ha no way of "knowing" what each speaker can take, it just pumps out that power to whatever is hooked in.
 

Rockin J

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1,958
Speaking of Top Hats and Celestion Blues. Has any one tried one in a Super Deluxe 1X12? Results? I may pick one up for my SD.
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
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10,753
If you do blow a Blue, Weber makes a great replacement kit in the 30 watt range. You get a bit more low end, twice the power rating, and the chime is still in there, too. Probably the best recone option going. The Celestion recone kit is $195.. by the way.

OUCH!
 

dehughes

Member
Messages
1,129
Thanks.

The SD will blow a Cele Blue for sure....you'd be walking even more dangerously than I, as you'd be putting 33w into one, and I'm only flirting with 25... :)

As for the recone kit.....wow....$195....I'd just buy another speaker...geeeeeeezzz...

BTW Jim, how's the G12M clone coming.....????? :) :) :)


david
 

* velcro-fly *

Supporting Member
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2,495
David -

Had to do some liquidating and strayed from the Top Hat path temporarily.....in the end the CR was a bit underpowered, but fantastic sounding.

Your CR with the Blue was / is the first amp I've ever played with a blue in it - and it pretty much ruined me. Just awesome tone...

Actually - in my current stable is a little VHT Pittbull Super 30 combo - 4 x EL84 open back, and I think a Blue would sound killer in it....I may try an Eminence Red Fang first since I've got a line on a local one cheap - but ultimately the Blue is where it's at.

Hope alls well, I need to bring the Super 30 by, you'd love it :D

Steve E
 

dehughes

Member
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1,129
I've heard good things about the Super 30...VHT stuff has always intrigued me... Yeah, the CR with the Blue is indeed *IT* for me. That is a benchmark tone in my head, no question.

Good deal about the G12Ms Jim...I'm looking forward to your reviews. :)


david
 




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