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a scale step above and a half step below

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Vishnu, May 20, 2011.

  1. Vishnu

    Vishnu Member

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    some book on the net says a good way to improvise is with a SCALE STEP ABOVE AND A HALF STEP BELOW the c scale. ....if a half step is a semi tone the scale step will be a tone,right?...

    if using c as the scale the 1st note in the sequence would be

    d C b c then

    e D c#d

    f#E d# e

    g F e f and so on

    am i getting this right? i am so confused,is the net book wrong and FULL of mistakes ?check out page 15. 1st line

    http://www.amazon.com/Bays-Complete...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305925198&sr=1-1
     
  2. stevel

    stevel Member

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    You are kind of correct, the book is kind of wrong.

    If you notice the patterns that begin on F and C, those notes are only a HALF STEP above the circled note (I erased yours that started on F#).

    What they're REALLY showing is you come from a SCALE TONE above, and a half step below.

    So F is F-E-D#-E instead of F#-E-D#-E - even though their methodology would create the latter.

    This is kind of an expansion on an old idea - when improvising, approaching a note by a lower half-step (or doing it is a neighbor tone) seems to be more acceptable to us than doing the same thing from above (so D-C#-D, or B-C-D#-E-F#-G-B-C to embellish a C chord). From above, it seems we'd rather hear a diatonic scale tone (of which the majority are whole steps).

    HTH,
    Steve
     
  3. Vishnu

    Vishnu Member

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    so a SCALE TONE above would be the next note above in the c scale and the half tone below just a plain old semitone below? c to d = scale tone...e to f = scale tone ?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2011
  4. Vishnu

    Vishnu Member

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  5. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    The third one is F natural not F#.
    That's a great pattern and a great jazz book. Pick it up!
     
  6. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    Yes, sometimes books have mistakes. One of the advantages of having TAB is that between the TAB and standard notation, one of them is probably right.
     
  7. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    The book is fine.
     
  8. medrawt

    medrawt Member

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    Well, if you have a scale in mind, scale tone above. If you don't have a scale in mind, whole step up usually works. (This winds up giving you the chordscale-approved most common modes for your various seventh chords, some from the major scale, some from melodic minor. Major ninth on a half-diminished sounds real pretty.)
     
  9. stevel

    stevel Member

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    Yep, you're right - on closer scrutiny it says "scale steps above", not specifically "whole steps" above.

    Sorry hahvishnu I somehow read "whole step" into the conversation. Nonetheless, the end result is as we've described it here, and the book is correct.

    Best,
    Steve
     
  10. docbop

    docbop Member

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    Your talking approach notes or embellishments and there are many patterns of approach notes like your example. The key to remember is the final note is the one that matters and the final note is all that matters. Whether you're using chromatic notes or scale tones they are just to setup the final note.

    I would say don't try this as a scale sequence take a simple melody and apply your approach pattern to setup strong melody notes. I think then you will "hear" it and how it works.

    Once you hear it on a melody and learn to get the timing which is more important than which approach notes you use. Then you will understand how to use it to setup target tones and guide tones in a solo.
     
  11. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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  12. willhutch

    willhutch Supporting Member

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    This is a useful technique for creating runs. I usually apply this concept to arpeggios, targeting chord tones. Try to make it so the chord towns land on down-beats.

    The notes played before and/or after a target note are called apoggiaturas (sp?) or enclosures. Some say that as long as chord tones match up with down beats, it doesn't matter what notes you use as your "enclosures".

    Another thing: "scale tone above half step below" is only one formula. You can apply others consisting of 1, 2, 3 notes.
     
  13. Neer

    Neer Supporting Member

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    Lessons with Mike Stern focused on this kind of stuff that he got from Charlie Banacos.
     
  14. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    I'm always amused when I find out a name for something I've been doing for 30+ years. I've always used my pick and fingers and now that's called 'hybrid picking'..ooh la la!
    Back in the seventies when I was on the road with pianist Micheal Royal (michealroyal.com) ,he taught me, in the classroom of a Motel 6 on Nine Mile in Detroit, the concept of 'point of arrival' and' point of departure'. He may have gotten those terms from a Howard Roberts seminar. This was decades before I'd heard of enclosures and apoggiaturas(used in jazz).
    Like you said "it doesn't matter what notes you use' as long as the plane lands with both tires on the ground.
     

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