A Tone thread.

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Eugene Wallace, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. FiestaRed

    FiestaRed Supporting Member

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    Both Ron Thorn and Ron Kirn are members here, and you have insulted both. What happened to no insults?
     
  2. Sean Mac

    Sean Mac Supporting Member

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    'You should learn not to make personal remarks,' Alice said with some severity; 'it's very rude.'
     
  3. rhinocaster

    rhinocaster Supporting Member

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    I can’t see what OP is saying....but I’m not surprised if he’s trashing Splatt, Thorn and other Masterbuilders.

    What do they know?
     
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  4. Sean Mac

    Sean Mac Supporting Member

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    Alice felt dreadfully puzzled. The Hatter's remark seemed to have no sort of meaning in it, and yet it was certainly English. 'I don't quite understand you,' she said, as politely as she could.

    'The Dormouse is asleep again,' said the Hatter, and he poured a little hot tea upon its nose.

    The Dormouse shook its head impatiently, and said, without opening its eyes, 'Of course, of course; just what I was going to remark myself.'

    'Have you guessed the riddle yet?' the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.

    'No, I give it up,' Alice replied: 'that's the answer?'

    'I haven't the slightest idea,' said the Hatter.

    'Nor I,' said the March Hare.
     
  5. Surfreak

    Surfreak Member

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    My tastebuds tell me what food I like to eat, my eyes show me the paintings that please my mind, my heart tells me the woman I love, my ears call the guitar I play.

    I wish this thread could mean anything. To me or to my fellow TGP members.
     
  6. DGTCrazy

    DGTCrazy Mod Squad Staff Member

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    Posts removed (including quoted posts that were removed), Warnings issued. Folks, posting in a thread a few times (even a dozen or two) while exchanging ideas and/or engaging in a respectful conversation is one thing, but posting 100+ times in a single thread generally will always lead to problems. Thank you.
     
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  7. Eugene Wallace

    Eugene Wallace Member

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    there are several people who disagree with you here on this thread.
    Their comments are valuable, and so is yours, thankyou.
     
  8. JmpOne

    JmpOne Member

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    At risk of it being a proscribed personal remark, I feel you've outdone my Pink Floyd references! :)
     
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  9. HoneyNut

    HoneyNut Member

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    I can agree with you on that. Yes, everyone has their right to an opinion. But if the opinion is incorrect/false/misleading, we should correct them. We should correct it, not to showcase our superiority in how much we know, but rather to actually state what the facts are.

    And that is simply my point. Wood/plastic makes no difference to the timbre of an electric guitar sound. The wood or plastic makes no difference to how the strings are going to vibrate. The A note is going to vibrate at 440hz, and the type of string is going to determine the timbre feeding into the pickups, which sends the signal through the amp. It is the scale length, strings, type of amps, pickup type, and if the player is using a pick or fingers.

    I am not a tech/electronics guy, but these basic details are just so obvious, it does kind of concern me that my friends are still mislead into thinking that wood actually makes a difference. It doesn't. (Again, to reiterate, I understand the tradition that we love woods, that I can accept, and I will respect someone's love of wood over plastic, sure)
     
  10. JmpOne

    JmpOne Member

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    He blocked you?

    Oh my...
     
  11. Sean Mac

    Sean Mac Supporting Member

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    The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling down what seemed to be a very deep well.

    :)
     
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  12. rhinocaster

    rhinocaster Supporting Member

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    The opposite ...

    You can only offer so much.
     
  13. JmpOne

    JmpOne Member

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    If you're suggesting that the materials and construction of a solid body instrument, very particularly the neck, make no difference to the strings' evolving timbre there's a wealth of evidence, and theoretical understanding that indicates otherwise.

    If you're suggesting that wood can be replaced satisfactorily by other materials if sufficient effort were to be applied I'm inclined to agree with you.
     
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  14. JmpOne

    JmpOne Member

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    That's probably wise!
     
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  15. rhinocaster

    rhinocaster Supporting Member

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    In my opinion, this is the type of post the thread aspired to..
     
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  16. Eugene Wallace

    Eugene Wallace Member

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    the differences people are hearing are with the range of human hearing..i think we can hear from 20hz? to around 20khz....what can dogs hear to? 100khz? is it 300khz? and that's on the treble side...I have no idea how low they can hear , but...when two dogs face each-other and trouble starts after a few seconds for no apparent reason, I've been told that they're doing low frequency growling..below what we can hear.


    The thing of it is, I think...I'll try and make a word picture.

    for frequency response, if all the frequencies on a graphic eq are at full on your guitar eq pedal..then imagine that eq pedal as the range of human hearing.
    now, pull a few down some...and thats a pattern.
    What I'm saying...is that people who can hear the difference in a persons guitar tone hear the different patterns within the range of human hearing..they can differentiate the patterns, one from the other...not hear outside the range of human hearing.
    Each guitar has a pattern,based solely on the wood its made of..neck and body, mostly body, ( much more..but the neck changes the tone enough to 'matter') having said that..go from maple to mahogany neck on a strat..and you've simply created a different tone generating machine.
    Lets put it this way...on an alder or swamp ash strat or tele...with maple backed necks..the body of the wood dictates the tone.



    for delivery, or attack...well you cant measure that on a graphic eq pedal.

    guitars that have plenty of spank ( attack)..well they resonate..and they do so for two different reasons.

    the first is - how much fuel was pumped into the engine? How hard were the strings hit?

    the second is...for reasons unknown to me ( we are now in the realms of physics unfortunately) when wood resonates..a bizarre thing can happen.
    it starts resonating not from the energy of the strings, but from the resonance that just 'happened'. It's like it's oscillating..the engine no longer requires fuel..it just takes off.
    it doesn't last long ( ironically..the heavier the mass the guitar is, it will resonate in this state for less time, if at all. heavy guitars dont like to bloom, or resonate..they're powerful things, the ones that aren't muddy...) ..but they have linear power delivery...not much bloom..

    think of a two stroke dirt bike..when that power band hits...

    this activity..this resonance creates a 3d effect..i can hear it clear as day.
    it doesn't last long, but it's there, and it matters to High tone.
    when you get both gank ( midrange) , and spank ( attack)...well...that's a tone jackpot.
     
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  17. HoneyNut

    HoneyNut Member

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    Yes, the wood can be replaced very satisfactorily by other materials, body and neck. I agree, yeah, of course, different woods would change the timbre of the sound, but so would some hard plastic very satisfactorily. If we tried, we could find a piece of plastic that would resonate the same way as SRV's neck. And still, it wouldn't make any reasonable difference to the actual sound coming out of the speakers.
     
  18. dreamingaxe

    dreamingaxe Member

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    LOL, oh no he didnt???

    i respect Ron Kirn, with his approach as a luthier and he is as logical as anyone can get, and i also respect Ron Thorn for the same reasons.

    Both are top notch luthiers but to insult, or at least disrespecting both, on account of the things one person believes in is a bit over the top.

    i mean, c’mon now. I’m pretty sure Eric Clapton did The heimlich maneuver, as well as Rene Martinez, as well as any luthier, or anyone who built a bolt on guitar.

    LOL, please tell me, when the MIJ neck, tele body partscaster was built, that at least was it not fit-tested to align the strings before the neck was screwed on tight? Even if the neck and body was drilled to 0.0000001 accuracy, you would make sure strings align before screwing it tight. I LOL thinking about this
     
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  19. korus

    korus Member

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    It is physically impossible to prevent metal and wood from absorbing some overtones and resonating with other overtones. The whole guitar vibrates. Lean it on everything while playing Aand you will hear.

    Relative level of absorbed/resonated overtones is what we call 'tone'.

    These level changes during sustain of the note. That is why tone of the sustaining'note changes. That is commonly called 'bloom'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  20. HoneyNut

    HoneyNut Member

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    Yes, the guitar will resonate or vibrate. That is common sense. The guitar still does not have to be made out of wood.
     
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