a wiring question this time from Simon the forum-hog!

Discussion in 'Luthier's Guitar & Bass Technical Discussion' started by spaceboy, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    my !fourth! thread on the first page! aren't i naughty... but i guess that's what happens when i suddenly come back to all the plans and problems i have with my two guitars and don't yet have the knowledge to work it all out myself...

    so my latest question refers to my long-standing wiring plans that I'd just been beginning to work out all for my own little self when, looking for a Red Special wiring diagram to see if my hypothesis for 3 pickups in series, each with an on(+ phase)-off-on(- phase) switch was correct (it was! yay!), i find these diagrams for Red Special "modifications"...

    see, my big plan is the afore-mentioned "3 pickups in series, each with an on(+ phase)-off-on(- phase) switch", but with one extra switch to change whether the pickups are connected in series, or parallel...

    so this is obviously where it gets complicated - too complicated for me really... see, these schematics are on the Red Special mods site:

    http://www.treblebooster.com/wiring_mods/burns4PDT.doc

    which is almost there, but functions with the 6 switch Red Special system instead of my preferred 3 switch system (which would hopefully require no pickguard-cutting)... the wonderful man Scott Humphrey who devised it says himself that he hasn't tried it out yet, but i did go through the schematic and as he says, it should work, but is there no way to do this with just one on-off-on switch per pickup?? he says he can't think of a way... so i wondered if anyone here could easily (don't go spending too much time on it for my sake or anything, i hate to sponge of other people's knowledge!) see how to make that work? maybe with 3pdt switches for each pickup?

    and lastly, would this be a 4PDT switch? and would it be appropriate for the above series-parallel idea? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2343&TabID=1&WorldID=&doy=31m1

    thank you all!
     
  2. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

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    I'm not sure about the Red Special wiring, but I did once spend about two days and an entire notebook trying to work out a way of wiring a Fender Mustang so I could get series/parallel/in-phase/out-of-phase with just the two standard switches.

    It Cannot Be Done.

    And that's with only two pickups, and slightly more complex switches (hard to describe, they're 2-pole 3-position, but have four pairs of contacts... though they're not strictly 'triple throw') - but with three pickups, it must be even harder.
     
  3. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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  4. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    ok, i've had some thought... now, would this work?

    [​IMG]

    i realise that if it does work, which is unlikely as it is of my own devising, it will probably be rather clumsy, but i can see some advantages (and disadvantages) over this one

    http://www.treblebooster.com/wiring_mods/burns4PDT.doc

    now, with my idea, although there are still 6 switches for the pickups, there's only 3 on-off-on switches being used at one time, so only one switch to worry about per pickup. I'd just have to remember whether I was in series or parallel and use the right switch... but with the other one i'd always have 6 switches to work with, whether in series or parallel, and might have to fiddle two switches per pickup to change it, which i imagine would be more difficult than just flipping one...

    but then the 4DPT is advantageous for the very fact that it uses a 4DPT instead of a 6DPT, which i imagine is much harder to find...

    does anyone have any opinions on this? i can't decide which would be better. i guess, if my plan does even work, then it depends whether anyone knows where to get a 6DPT switch...

    cheers!
     
  5. alderbody

    alderbody Member

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    ... and what happens if you just want to play guitar?.... :)

    with all those switches you might spend your playing time by changing "voices" and you'll probably end up playing the traditional ones...

    at least, that's what happened to me :)


    three pickups in series could get muddy IMHO...


    anyway, it's your guitar, your time, so do whatever pleases you.

    good luck!
     
  6. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    yeh, that's always a possibility, but I so often find myself wanting more tones during one playing session than i can have on my guitar AT ANY ONE TIME... mightily annoying.

    at least if i've got the ultimate versatility I don't have to think too much about it again, it's all there!

    and thanks for the input, but what do you think about the two ideas opposed to eachother? does mine even work? if so, which do yu think would be easier?

    and is this http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx...D=&doy=31m1 a 4DPT switch??

    thanks for taking the time, it'll be sooo helpful to get some opinions on this
     
  7. Clorenzo

    Clorenzo Member

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    It will work. I'm generally against having more than a couple of additional switches but this scheme actually looks neat and intuitive to use. The only thing is that the three bottom switches should be ON-ON-ON (www.wdmusicproducts.co.uk has those) rather than ON-OFF-ON, otherwise they would leave the circuit open in the central position and what you want there is a short between the two middle lugs.

    As for 6PDT switches, they exist, they are rotary and I have one in my Stratocloner! It's just like this one:

    [​IMG]

    That's from Conrad, the German equivalent of Maplin. The one in the picture is the 2P6T version, mine is a 6PDT so it has 6 inner lugs instead of just 2. I did look hard for a toggle one but didn't find it, though in the end I actually prefer the rotary one, a Strat always looks better with its three knobs (I have vol, switch and master tone).

    As it happens, I'm going to replace it soon with a 4PDT due to a change of pickup for which I have re-designed the wiring, and I'm anal about having a switch with more poles than I need. It will go to the parts box to gather dust and if I ever need one again I can find it easily here, so if you are serious about doing this, e-mail me your postal address and I'll put it in a padded envelope and send it to you, as long as you agree to buy me a beer if I ever go to Dundee ;). The only thing is that I ordered the new pickup from a supplier that usually takes a very long time to send the stuff, so it may be a few weeks before I can do this. Be aware also that I cut the shaft to a reasonable length for pickguard mounting and as you can see the bottom part is not knurled, so you can only use a knob with set screw fixing. Interested?
     
  8. Clorenzo

    Clorenzo Member

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    ...or you ever come to Munich! :BEER
     
  9. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    wow clorenzo! thank you so much!

    what a guy eh? ^_^

    well let's see, firstly, cheers - the on-on-on makes sense now i think about it, and the parallel (top) switches should definately by on-off-on yeh? what's on-none-on again? cheers :¬)

    would this http://wdmusicproducts.co.uk/Mercha...=wduk&Product_Code=WDE11&Category_Code=SWTCHS be the same size/shape etc. as this? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2340&TabID=1&WorldID=&doy=28m1

    i suppose it wouldn't even matter too much if they looked different as it'd still be two SETS of the same switches.

    now, this 6dpt switch! just to clarify, it's got all the 18 lugs I need, and it's... on-on? just two positions to rotate between? would the shaft accept a standard guitar knob?

    i guess this replaces the "how could i get hold of a 6DPT switch?" problem with a brand new "how easy would a rotary switch be to use?"...

    well, i'm sure i could easily come up with some easy way tell which way the switch is turned...

    you know what, assuming the answers to the above questions about the switch have the right sort of answers, i think i'll go for it.

    but I wouldn't dream of not paying! name a price for that switch, gimme a name and address for the cheque, and i'll send it off. and I'll be sure to get you a drink of your choice whenever we're in the same city!

    thanks again Clorenzo, invaluable input!

    woohoo, i'm all excited about this now! ^_^
     
  10. Clorenzo

    Clorenzo Member

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    Yeah, on-off-on for the top ones. I've never seen on-none-on, but I guess it would be the same as on-off-on? Nope, I have one of the WD ones and the mounting hole is 6.3 mm, not 5.2. But you can also get the on-off-on's from WD, so you can be sure they will match. A bit expensive though.
    Yes, yes, yes and yes! although, as I said, you should use a set screw knob, like the metal dome type ones. I got mine from Warmoth: http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/parts/parts.cfm?fuseaction=include_knobs the ones at the top. I guess the similar looking ones in WD: http://wdmusicproducts.co.uk/Mercha...k&Product_Code=BBKC&Category_Code=RPLCMNTFNDR are also of the set screw type, I'd drop them a line to confirm.
    I just have it with the screw pointing towards me so it's easy to see its position: left A, right B. As for ease of use, I find it easy, but then again I don't have a problem with the infamous PRS rotary switch either, so...
    C'mon, there are people giving away complete guitars here, and I'm going to charge you for a used switch? Tell you what, apart from that beer you owe me, if you ever become rich and famous with that guitar, you should mention my name in your CD acknowledgements and in the Guitarist interview :D
     
  11. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    brilliant!

    just one more issue though, i'd totally forgotten that I was gonna TRY and do this with 4 pickups ^_^

    but for that I'd need an EIGHTpdt switch!

    or could i do it with two 4pdt?

    ...

    ok, i just worked it out, and it seems as if it would work with two 4PDTs, AND i'd then get EVEN MORE switching combinations! like bridge and 1st middle in series, with neck and 2nd middle both in parallel! boy is this getting complicated....

    hell, i could just have 12 bloody DPDT switches! four switching each pickup between series/parallel and then two switches per pickup to turn it on or off in whichever mode it's in!

    buggeration, i'm getting pretty carried away here!

    ... but it sure would be fun!

    let's see... how could I fit TWELVE switches onto my guitar?

    or, my other option is to forget about 4 pickups and take you up on your wonderful offer of the 6PDT switch!

    too many choices!!!

    :confused:

    i know, i'll go home and think about how many switches I could bear having on my guitar.... so for 3 pickups it's 7, 8 or 10, and for 4 pickups it's either 9 (if i could get an 8PDT switch!), 10 or 12!

    bloody hell... ^_^

    thanks for all the help, i'll get back to you soon!
     
  12. spaceboy

    spaceboy Member

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    ok, money has as ever become the deciding factor, and buying more pickups is gonna cost a fair old bit, so I'm sticking with 3 for now, and drilling up my pickguard is also not an incredibly tantalizing prospect, so less of that to do the better...

    so Clorenzo, if that rotary switch is still gonna be available sometime in the near future, and you're sure you can let it go, let me know and i'll gladly and gratefully take it off your hands!

    cheers mate!
     

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