Advanced MIDI for Pigtronix Infinity Looper

Go2ldook

Member
Messages
57
Joining this old thread. I have the Boomerang and the Infinity Looper. While I like the Boomerang more in some ways (the extra loops, especially when you use Loop 3 as a Master for a backing rhythm/beat loop in Sync modes. The lack of full MIDI implementation is a deal breaker, and I will soon be permanently removing it from my board and using the Infinity only.

Here is my set-up, and how it works with the Infinity Looper:
Bandhelper runs on an iPad. I use a setlist of songs when I play
When I pick a song, Bandhelper sends the Midi Presets I have stored for that song to all my MIDI capable devices (Infinity, Strymon Timeline/Mobius/BigSky, Free the Tone EQ, Chase Bliss Brothers OD, my Mastermind PBC loop switcher, and a Kronos keyboard)
From this I have all of them set up for the song. Bandhelper's MIDI Presets have a space for your Program Change (to select your Preset on the Infinity looper and all the other devices), and it has a slot for a CC message, if you need it, for each device.

I have a LOT going on at my feet. While I sing and play guitar, I also play backing bass notes or synth sounds (sometimes both concurrently) with a set of Korg Basspedals, which run the Kronos keyboard via MIDI.

I also send MIDI CC messages during the performance from the Mastermind PBC. For example, I might need to change to a heavier OD and delay during a solo, while at the same time needing to play the C Note on the Basspedals, and stop the loop on the Infinity. This is accomplished by having a Preset on the Mastermind looper (you can have 6 Presets per song), which does all of that. So you can program CC changes into the Mastermind.

I use this to play loops and stop loops during preset changes. Sure, I could do that by hitting the Infinity buttons directly, but then I cannot change my guitar effects or trigger a note on the Basspedals at the same time.

There have been some frustrations, but I am learning how to use this quite effectively.

One issue I have had is the Infinity Looper freezing up. It does not do it during a song, but it will do it when I change songs. I have traced this down to a specific set of circumstances:
Looper is stopped with a loop recorded (like at the end of a song), and I switch to a new song without erasing the loop first. Apparently, if it receives a Program Change with a loop recorded, it will reliably freeze. As long as I erase the loop first, no problem. If it freezes, I then have to unplug the looper to reboot it.

I now have two work-arounds (other than remembering to erase, which I know I will inevitably forget): One is that I have created a Midi Preset for "Loop Erase", and I place it first in the order of Midi Presets, followed by the one for the song (which has the Program Change). Another option, which I have not tried, is that Bandhelper allows you to change the order in which Midi Commands are sent, so I could have the song itself loaded with a Midi Erase CC, but have it set up so that command goes FIRST, followed by the Program Change. I had already set up my songs with an ERASE CC for each song where I used looping, so I would start with a clean slate, but was having the freeze issue because the default for Bandhelper is to send the Program Change first.

I am going to go with the plan of sending an ERASE Midi Preset prior to the Song Midi Preset, simply because I am not sure if reversing the order of the Program Change/Midi Preset signals might screw something else up with other Midi devices.

I will say that the Infinity Looper is the only Midi device I have had major issues with. I have notified them of this bug, so maybe they will fix it. I have also requested a dedicated REPLAY CC command. Right now, retriggering a loop is connected to their undo switch, so if you have a layered loop and retrigger it, you lose the last track you recorded. In addition, I find that the base track often loses a millisecond of track, making it hard to reuse without a timing disaster. When I don't have my drummer I use drum backing tracks that are mp3 recordings, so cannot midi sync, and retriggering is very important to have.

Hope all this info helps someone thing about how to use MIDI with the Infinity Looper. When I first got it, I wasn't sure it would replace my Boomerang, and built my board to accommodate both, but my next pedalboard rebuild will eliminate the Boomerang. I sent them a couple of messages pleading for full MIDI support, but apparently the only MIDI functionality that is possible with their hardware is MIDI sync. The communication between the Sidecar and the Boomerang is not standard MIDI (which helped them to insure they would sell more Sidecars, since no one could use a generic MIDI pedal).
 

sdecker001

Member
Messages
1
I do a single show and use the infinity looper to create a trio sound. I midi the looper to my Alesis SR18 drummer. In have created 26 prerecorded loops and use them nightly. My issue is, I must bend down to select the loop (song). This takes me away from my crowd. I really need a way to be able to access the loops without bending down. Pigtronics told me to use a midi controller, but I have no idea how this would work, how to set it up, or what type of controller In need.

I would rather have a remote switch to place on my pedal board and put the looper pedal on my table to access the knob to select the loop.

Any help is really appreciated
 

schlemmberger

Member
Messages
7
I do a single show and use the infinity looper to create a trio sound. I midi the looper to my Alesis SR18 drummer. In have created 26 prerecorded loops and use them nightly. My issue is, I must bend down to select the loop (song). This takes me away from my crowd. I really need a way to be able to access the loops without bending down. Pigtronics told me to use a midi controller, but I have no idea how this would work, how to set it up, or what type of controller In need.

I would rather have a remote switch to place on my pedal board and put the looper pedal on my table to access the knob to select the loop.

Any help is really appreciated

I've posted a similar question earlier, and since then I've learned a lot, so I'm answering it myself now ;)

All you need to learn about, is 'Programm Change' with MIDI. You might want to look into a pedal, like the Selah Quartz Timer or something similar. I use it in combination with the Infinity Looper and it works great, I can just switch through my setlist and the Infinity follows along.
You can also get extra features out of the Infinity by attaching additional switches. For example, I have a switch to instantly delete and re-record a Loop. Also, I'm now able to change between Stop-Modes and Arm/ALL while playing, which gives me LOTS of new possibillities.
You could of course use any other Midi Controller, the Quartz works perfectly for what I do. Didn't even mention all the advantages you get by using a MIDI-Clock.


Another question: I've noticed there is a new Firmware that came just recently with even more MIDI functions! Most of them work as expected, but I don't quite understand the 'One Shot' Feature.. I don't notice any effect when triggering it, but I'm also not sure what it's supposed to do. Can anyone shine a light on this? Is there a changelog available for the new firmware somewhere (I couldn't find it)?
 
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jpallot

Member
Messages
3
I've posted a similar question earlier, and since then I've learned a lot, so I'm answering it myself now ;)

All you need to learn about, is 'Programm Change' with MIDI. You might want to look into a pedal, like the Selah Quartz Timer or something similar. I use it in combination with the Infinity Looper and it works great, I can just switch through my setlist and the Infinity follows along.
You can also get extra features out of the Infinity by attaching additional switches. For example, I have a switch to instantly delete and re-record a Loop. Also, I'm now able to change between Stop-Modes and Arm/ALL while playing, which gives me LOTS of new possibillities.
You could of course use any other Midi Controller, the Quartz works perfectly for what I do. Didn't even mention all the advantages you get by using a MIDI-Clock.


Another question: I've noticed there is a new Firmware that came just recently with even more MIDI functions! Most of them work as expected, but I don't quite understand the 'One Shot' Feature.. I don't notice any effect when triggering it, but I'm also not sure what it's supposed to do. Can anyone shine a light on this? Is there a changelog available for the new firmware somewhere (I couldn't find it)?
 

jpallot

Member
Messages
3
Hi, I just acquired an Infinity, but have been completely stumped by the issue of how to get it to receive Program Change messages (from an H9 fwiw). All I want to to do is to have the act of loading an H9 preset to trigger a correspondong load of a saved loop on the Infinity. No-one from Eventide, Pigtronix, Disaster Area, or Midi Solutions have been able to answer the question. But it sounds like you have figured it out. Do you have any wisdom you can share? Hope so!
 

schlemmberger

Member
Messages
7
Hi, I just acquired an Infinity, but have been completely stumped by the issue of how to get it to receive Program Change messages (from an H9 fwiw). All I want to to do is to have the act of loading an H9 preset to trigger a correspondong load of a saved loop on the Infinity. No-one from Eventide, Pigtronix, Disaster Area, or Midi Solutions have been able to answer the question. But it sounds like you have figured it out. Do you have any wisdom you can share? Hope so!

In order to select the specific preset, you just need to send a Programm Change (PC) message to the Infinity. The Infinity has 50 Preset slots, and they are numbered in an ascending manner. So PC from 1-50 will directly switch to the corresponding preset.
Make sure you send it on the right MIDI Channel. You can set up and change the channel to which the Infinity will listen to, using the Infinity Application.

I don't know how the H9 works, but once you understand the concept of MIDI, you should be good to go. Good Luck!
 

jpallot

Member
Messages
3
In order to select the specific preset, you just need to send a Programm Change (PC) message to the Infinity. The Infinity has 50 Preset slots, and they are numbered in an ascending manner. So PC from 1-50 will directly switch to the corresponding preset.
Make sure you send it on the right MIDI Channel. You can set up and change the channel to which the Infinity will listen to, using the Infinity Application.

I don't know how the H9 works, but once you understand the concept of MIDI, you should be good to go. Good Luck!

That's brilliant to hear, thanks so much! And all just in time for a gig on Friday...
 

Squatch57

Member
Messages
3,918
In order to select the specific preset, you just need to send a Programm Change (PC) message to the Infinity. The Infinity has 50 Preset slots, and they are numbered in an ascending manner. So PC from 1-50 will directly switch to the corresponding preset.
Make sure you send it on the right MIDI Channel. You can set up and change the channel to which the Infinity will listen to, using the Infinity Application.

I don't know how the H9 works, but once you understand the concept of MIDI, you should be good to go. Good Luck!

It depends how many presets you have the Infinity set to in the software setup.
I have mine set to 10 presets, which gives me superlong loops (especially with the 32 gb chip)
I assume it would still receive the same corresponding 1-10 program changes though

The Eventides do have some midi mapping but I'm not sure if you can set a different PC # output for different patches.
 

schlemmberger

Member
Messages
7
Joining this old thread. I have the Boomerang and the Infinity Looper. While I like the Boomerang more in some ways (the extra loops, especially when you use Loop 3 as a Master for a backing rhythm/beat loop in Sync modes. The lack of full MIDI implementation is a deal breaker, and I will soon be permanently removing it from my board and using the Infinity only.

Here is my set-up, and how it works with the Infinity Looper:
Bandhelper runs on an iPad. I use a setlist of songs when I play
When I pick a song, Bandhelper sends the Midi Presets I have stored for that song to all my MIDI capable devices (Infinity, Strymon Timeline/Mobius/BigSky, Free the Tone EQ, Chase Bliss Brothers OD, my Mastermind PBC loop switcher, and a Kronos keyboard)
From this I have all of them set up for the song. Bandhelper's MIDI Presets have a space for your Program Change (to select your Preset on the Infinity looper and all the other devices), and it has a slot for a CC message, if you need it, for each device.

I have a LOT going on at my feet. While I sing and play guitar, I also play backing bass notes or synth sounds (sometimes both concurrently) with a set of Korg Basspedals, which run the Kronos keyboard via MIDI.

I also send MIDI CC messages during the performance from the Mastermind PBC. For example, I might need to change to a heavier OD and delay during a solo, while at the same time needing to play the C Note on the Basspedals, and stop the loop on the Infinity. This is accomplished by having a Preset on the Mastermind looper (you can have 6 Presets per song), which does all of that. So you can program CC changes into the Mastermind.

I use this to play loops and stop loops during preset changes. Sure, I could do that by hitting the Infinity buttons directly, but then I cannot change my guitar effects or trigger a note on the Basspedals at the same time.

There have been some frustrations, but I am learning how to use this quite effectively.

One issue I have had is the Infinity Looper freezing up. It does not do it during a song, but it will do it when I change songs. I have traced this down to a specific set of circumstances:
Looper is stopped with a loop recorded (like at the end of a song), and I switch to a new song without erasing the loop first. Apparently, if it receives a Program Change with a loop recorded, it will reliably freeze. As long as I erase the loop first, no problem. If it freezes, I then have to unplug the looper to reboot it.

I now have two work-arounds (other than remembering to erase, which I know I will inevitably forget): One is that I have created a Midi Preset for "Loop Erase", and I place it first in the order of Midi Presets, followed by the one for the song (which has the Program Change). Another option, which I have not tried, is that Bandhelper allows you to change the order in which Midi Commands are sent, so I could have the song itself loaded with a Midi Erase CC, but have it set up so that command goes FIRST, followed by the Program Change. I had already set up my songs with an ERASE CC for each song where I used looping, so I would start with a clean slate, but was having the freeze issue because the default for Bandhelper is to send the Program Change first.

I am going to go with the plan of sending an ERASE Midi Preset prior to the Song Midi Preset, simply because I am not sure if reversing the order of the Program Change/Midi Preset signals might screw something else up with other Midi devices.

I will say that the Infinity Looper is the only Midi device I have had major issues with. I have notified them of this bug, so maybe they will fix it. I have also requested a dedicated REPLAY CC command. Right now, retriggering a loop is connected to their undo switch, so if you have a layered loop and retrigger it, you lose the last track you recorded. In addition, I find that the base track often loses a millisecond of track, making it hard to reuse without a timing disaster. When I don't have my drummer I use drum backing tracks that are mp3 recordings, so cannot midi sync, and retriggering is very important to have.

Hope all this info helps someone thing about how to use MIDI with the Infinity Looper. When I first got it, I wasn't sure it would replace my Boomerang, and built my board to accommodate both, but my next pedalboard rebuild will eliminate the Boomerang. I sent them a couple of messages pleading for full MIDI support, but apparently the only MIDI functionality that is possible with their hardware is MIDI sync. The communication between the Sidecar and the Boomerang is not standard MIDI (which helped them to insure they would sell more Sidecars, since no one could use a generic MIDI pedal).

Thanks for your insight, I actually have stumbled upon similar issues!
I wanted to use the same preset for different songs, just because the settings were the same, so I had to delete the saved Loops on some songs. The problem I had, was that until recently, there was no MIDI message to erase both loops, so I would build a stacked MIDI message to switch to both loops and delete them seperately - but then it didn't work on all presets as expected. But now there actually is a 'Erase All' feature (also 'Erase Other'), so that's great..

I also encountered some freezes, but couldn't track it down like you did so far. Now with the new firmware 218 I didn't encounter any more freezes, although I didn't have too much testing time. How is it working for you? Any change on your issues, any more (reproducable) freezes?

Also, I didn't quite understand the 'Replay' feature you requested - but could it be, that this would be the 'One Shot' feature they added? I'm still wondering about that one.

All in all, it sounds intriguing what you might be doing.. is there any way to hear/see you play?

Looking forward to hearing back!
 
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4b454e

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,079
I was interested in the Infinity a year or more ago. I have liked everything I’ve owned by Pigtronix but got scared off by apparent MIDI issues and what seemed like not-great support (which, again I’ve mostly heard good things about their support so maybe there was just a rough patch)

Now I’m gassing again for the Infinity!

Have they got things sorted so that most/all issues would be down to user error?
 

Squatch57

Member
Messages
3,918
I was interested in the Infinity a year or more ago. I have liked everything I’ve owned by Pigtronix but got scared off by apparent MIDI issues and what seemed like not-great support (which, again I’ve mostly heard good things about their support so maybe there was just a rough patch)

Now I’m gassing again for the Infinity!

Have they got things sorted so that most/all issues would be down to user error?

I've got four Pigtronix boxes and I worry about support for the fancy units
They still never got back to me regarding the internal tuning procedure for the Mothership
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth when you have expensive units that are unusable.
 

Gila_Crisis

Member
Messages
1,313
By chance I noticed that Pigtronix put out a new firmware 2.18 for the Infinity. Looks like a very shy update. From the very little information on the site Pigtornix implemented only 2 new midi commands.
I did update my unit, still have to play it in depth, I hope they also did something more than those midi commands...

More infos herE:
https://pigtronix.com/infinity_updates/
 

cbm

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,959
By chance I noticed that Pigtronix put out a new firmware 2.18 for the Infinity. Looks like a very shy update. From the very little information on the site Pigtornix implemented only 2 new midi commands.
I did update my unit, still have to play it in depth, I hope they also did something more than those midi commands...

More infos herE:
https://pigtronix.com/infinity_updates/
Cool. I hope this one fixes the volume inconstancies I've been having since 210.
 

Gila_Crisis

Member
Messages
1,313
Cool. I hope this one fixes the volume inconstancies I've been having since 210.

Let's see. After such a long time I was expecting a more in depth update. I love my Infinity, but 2-3 thing could be better.
A cool feature I would like to see be kill dry (very usefull when using the looper in a mixer fx send-return).
 

cbm

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,959
Let's see. After such a long time I was expecting a more in depth update. I love my Infinity, but 2-3 thing could be better.
A cool feature I would like to see be kill dry (very usefull when using the looper in a mixer fx send-return).
I removed a couple resistors in mine to kill dry permanently.
 

David Kish

Member
Messages
1
To eliminate the "warp" sound with midi sync, set your DAW audio sample rate to 48k. This is the only sample rate the Infinity will a accept
 

Gila_Crisis

Member
Messages
1,313
I got a Disaster Area Midi Baby 3, and I programmed it to control my Infinity (and also the looper inside the HX Stomp).
What a great tool!
Now midi baby let me access these funtions:
Left Footswitch: press Full/Half Speed (Left LED shows which is selected), hold Aging (full or 70%, on/off shawn by Center LED)
Center Footswitch: press Reverse, hold Sync Multi On/Off
Right Footswitch: press Undo, hold erase+rec

I wanted to change the Stop Mode with Right FS hold, but I wasn't able to make it work properly. Do you have any good ideas how to send the right Midi CC?
 
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