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Affordable "fendery" sounding speaker

Jim85IROC

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,066
Recently I built a 1x12 cabinet for my Super Sonic 22. I loaded it with a Weber 12F150 and I hate it. It's way too dark. Today I plugged my Vintage 30 cabinet into the amp and it was a huge improvement.

Weber describes the 12F150 like this:
The 12F150 is the quintessential speaker for the Deluxe Reverb for the classic Fender tone. Sparkly highs, big tight bass, and a mid-scoop that had become very well-known as the “Fender” sound. Plenty of presence on the treble without being an icepick machine.
That description is exactly what I want, but the 12F150 isn't it at all.

I want a speaker that does the glassy Fender thing with a lot of top end sparkle (can I possibly stuff more useless adjectives in?) but without harshness.

In other words, I'm looking for a speaker with a lot of top end extension, but one with minimal cone breakup.

I'd also prefer to stay under $150.

Any suggestions?

 
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gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,978
Those Weber types are often described as sounding like well broken in vintage Jensens. I like that about them, you may not. The Jensen re-issues tend to be a little less mellow in the highs. Jensen wants you to keep them for 30 years and get to that tone by earning it. ;) Maybe a C12K? They pop up in the emporium from time to time for $60 - $70 shipped. People swap them out when they come stock.

Fender branded Eminence speakers might even do it for you. People give them away, but they are nice American speakers and very flexible between clean and gain.

WGS G12C and G12C/S are on my wish list. I cannot comment but worth looking into. :aok
 
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Tone_Terrific

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
34,693
Speakers with more topend sparkle than v30s are not rare.
Borrow, rent, try, some others.
 

Steppin' Wolfe

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,811
Ime, the 12F150 does what they say it does. You have one channel in that amp that is based on the AB763 circuit and one channel that is based More in the vein of the big tweeds/Marshall thing, so the SS22does that mid-scoop thing on the left channel and and something different from that mid-scoop In the right channel. The V30 has more midrange content and less bottom end than does that 12F150. Maybe you like midrange more than you thought????
 

2L man

Senior Member
Messages
448
WGS G12Q sound great with all Tweed fenders builds I have made and it is ceramic and not expensive. But its max useful power is only about 10W and when sensitivity is only about 95db its gig use has limits when it beaks soon but it does it wonderful.

C12N RI is sweet sounding speaker which high cleans sparkle clear. Higher volume sound becomes balanced when it get more grit and when its rating is 50W it should stay clean longer but obviously it is only good for max 25W amp. Its cost should be reasonable. I have done direct comparing with V30, CB65 and CB Neo and I have liked C12N more, all volumes cleans to good R&R and blues dirt :)

Blackbird 40 has very sweet balanced sound, which has vintage and modern elements. Its sensitivy is few db better and it can comfortably take at least 18W amp. BB40 breaks later but it also does it wonderful.

Tornado 100 sound very good with all Tweed amps I have built and sparkles without coloring sound when power is lowish, obviously because of its 100W rating.

There are few good samples in YouTube all of them.
 
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Dontchaknow

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
640
If you like the V30 and want more top end sparkle, maybe the Creamback 65 is a good spot between the v30 and traditional scooped fender speakers? I also love the Tornado 100 with everything, but it will not do v30 mids.
 

RCM78

Member
Messages
6,135
If you like the V30 then you like upper mids. A speaker with less midrange will sound dark in comparison. Put a V30 in that cabinet.
 

caspersvapors

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,474
I would look at the Fat Jimmy or WGS offerings. Mike at Fat Jimmy has always been great with responding to questions. The ceramic speakers are well within your budget
 

slider313

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,390
The obvious question: Is the speaker cabinet open or closed back?

You can also send the 12F150 back to Weber and have it reconed with their "A" cone. That may be the most cost effective alternative.
 

Jim85IROC

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,066
If you like the V30 then you like upper mids. A speaker with less midrange will sound dark in comparison. Put a V30 in that cabinet.
I didn't say I particularly like the V30, just that it's better than the Weber. I want those bright, chimey Fender cleans, and the V30 isn't really doing it, but it's a lot closer than the super-dark weber. Most of my guitars are humbucker guitars, and I like the neck buckers nice and bright.
 

Jim85IROC

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,066
The obvious question: Is the speaker cabinet open or closed back?

You can also send the 12F150 back to Weber and have it reconed with their "A" cone. That may be the most cost effective alternative.
It's open backed, but not wide open.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,978
The obvious question: Is the speaker cabinet open or closed back?

You can also send the 12F150 back to Weber and have it reconed with their "A" cone. That may be the most cost effective alternative.
Weber only charges $30 to re-cone their own speakers, but with shipping costs these days, it might be $80 - $90 all-in. I think it would be cheaper to just sell the speaker and buy another, new or used.
 

Silent Sound

Member
Messages
5,602
Jensen C12N. Though claiming a 12F150 is super-dark suggests there's something else going on here. Maybe an amp problem. Maybe a guitar problem. Maybe you're not turning up the treble enough. Or maybe you think you want highs, when you actually want high-mids.
 

Dontchaknow

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
640
For the record, on the 12f150 to me it does not sound like it is always described (blackface, scooped). I hear very forward and aggressive mids (especially upper mids) and a fairly subdued top end. I think lots of people like them to counteract the fender scoop and brightness. Just my experience. With speaker recommendations you have to drill down a bit and see why people who like them are mentioning them and how they have used them.
 

Jim85IROC

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,066
Jensen C12N. Though claiming a 12F150 is super-dark suggests there's something else going on here. Maybe an amp problem. Maybe a guitar problem. Maybe you're not turning up the treble enough. Or maybe you think you want highs, when you actually want high-mids.
If it was any of those things (save for the last), the V30 would exhibit the same issues.

I will admit that my definitions of "mids" "upper mids" "treble" etc may differ from the norm. Those terms are pretty well defined in the audio world, but I'm guessing that they don't really translate the same in the guitar world, as the guitar's entire bandwidth would be considered "midrange" by those standards.

The "brightness" of a guitar seems to be in the 1.5-3khz range as far as I can tell, with output above 3khz being more of a "presence" or "detail" range as it's typically called in the audio world. From looking at frequency response graphs of the V30, it appears to be pretty flat right up to about 2khz, then the output jumps up from 2khz to about 5khz. This seems to correlate with what I hear, and also looks similar to the response plots for a lot of the Jensens that I'm looking at. Unfortunately Weber doesn't post their response plots, but if I get time tomorrow I think I'm going to measure mine, along with my V30. To my ears, this Weber is very warm. It sounds to me like it's starting to roll off around 1k or 1.5k with none of the raised output over 2k.
 

slider313

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,390
Weber only charges $30 to re-cone their own speakers, but with shipping costs these days, it might be $80 - $90 all-in. I think it would be cheaper to just sell the speaker and buy another, new or used.
I've shipped 12" speakers back to Weber for $18-$20. $70 for a Weber recone (basically a new speaker) beats $124, plus shipping, for a new one.
 






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