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All Guitarists, Please, I beg you...

Whittlez

Member
Messages
2,850
This is a good point. We generally bake in about 15-20 seconds for silent tuning every 2-3 songs. All of my stuff requires a certain amount of tuning compensation. Building setlists and tuning points with that in mind is a nearly invisible way to be just a little bit shinier than the other bands on the circuit ;)
One good example is Man in a Box. I retune SLIGHTLY to make the riff sound better. Tuning a bit "out of tune" as relates to standard equal temperament tuning makes it sound better
 

stanshall

Member
Messages
2,072

And then there's the people that insist vinyl has better sound quality than high quality digital recording which is demonstrably false. They just enjoy the nostalgiac relics the media imparts on the sound quality, it's not better.
You said yourself that audio quality is a niche. You don’t understand that vinyl is an actual physical sound, and CD’s are but a snapshot.
Your Mona Lisa keychain is certainly almost as pretty as the original but it’s no substitute.
If you can’t hear it, your rig is trash and your hearing has aged to blissful acceptance of lo fi. Enjoy.
well said Gevalt, as a DJ playing vinyl records exclusively I can offer an experienced opinion that vinyl records have so much punch and three-dimensionality to them than CDs or other digital formats that it's funny to read the vinyl naysayer's post ... sometimes vinyl records they have more artifacts and defects but when they're good they're great, as opposed to the static, flat, two-dimensional lifelessness of digital ... it's not the pops, clicks, or scratches that attract people to vinyl, it's the bass, and nothing's got the bass of a good 7-inch record, vinyl rules, and that's why I hunt it down all the time .... when that needle gets into that bass groove lightning flash anna weak heart drop
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,284
Agree. A guitar that isn't intonated correct is just as bad as a guitar that it out of tune to my ears. It'll definitely make you sound better to tune and intonate than any pedal or amp will. Thats why I'll always keep my Boss TU-3 around.
Yet even intonated and tuned it's still out of tune...
 
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Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,284
imo this is a lot of misplaced anger... the golden ears crowd always gets bent out of shape about intonation but their ears never seem to pick up the fact that their own meticulously maintained guitar is not perfectly intonated. unless you have a rare guitar with buzz feiten or better yet a true temperament neck your guitar is not perfectly intonated. nobody's is. you make approximations for rock and roll chords (i actually really like the peterson sweetened tunings) and you use your ear for everything else. complaining about youtube guitarists has always struck me as a complete waste of time "hey this totally free product doesn't meet the standards that i myself have decided on - fetch the emperor a new pedal demoer"

Tru day. And fwiw I had a few guitars with the Feiten and had it ripped out and put a regular distance placed nut back.
 
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MikeMcK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,789
You said yourself that audio quality is a niche. You don’t understand that vinyl is an actual physical sound, and CD’s are but a snapshot.
Your Mona Lisa keychain is certainly almost as pretty as the original but it’s no substitute.
If you can’t hear it, your rig is trash and your hearing has aged to blissful acceptance of lo fi. Enjoy.
Huh? Vinyl is a reproduction... ask a long-term mastering engineer whether vinyl or digital requires more compromises in the mastering process. And anyone who claims to "hear" artifacts in a properly-done 44.1 kHz recording is either a puppy or fooling himself.

Every time we go off into audiophile philosophies I'm reminded of the poor vendor who got tired of going to AES and having people visibly sneer at his low-priced digital technology. So one year his booth was a listening station where audiophiles could be part of a double-blind listening test, and at the end of each day he'd post the results.

Sounded like a great opportunity for the golden-ears crowd to prove themselves, but it failed. It failed because over the course of three days, he could not get a single attendee to sit down and back up their claims that they could hear the difference. I was at AES a few weeks back, and he was no longer there.

The running joke at AES is, "If you need to clear the room, yell, 'Fire!'. But if you need to clear it fast, yell, "Double-blind listening test!"
 

MikeMcK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,789
My singer kills me on duo gigs... every time he puts his Kyser capo on his lower-end Takamine, he's badly, audibly sharp. I'm constantly either tuning to him or playing sharp so we don't get too out of tune. The baffling part is that he's a great singer, so he can hear pitches, but he's so used to it he can't hear what I'm talking about.
 

edro

Member
Messages
853
Funny that some do not know that a guitar with straight frets is mathematically impossible to be in tune.
We 'accept' guitars being in tune...when they are not....

I'd love to have True Temperament boards on all my guitars...but it's just that issues with the chippies involved... Since I don't have the chippies to replace boards, I'll live with being 'close'....

Love the playing in this vid... Some explanation in the vid explaining it... Love this acoustic playing... just rings out...

 

singlecutarmy

Member
Messages
1,477
Huh? Vinyl is a reproduction... ask a long-term mastering engineer whether vinyl or digital requires more compromises in the mastering process. And anyone who claims to "hear" artifacts in a properly-done 44.1 kHz recording is either a puppy or fooling himself.

Every time we go off into audiophile philosophies I'm reminded of the poor vendor who got tired of going to AES and having people visibly sneer at his low-priced digital technology. So one year his booth was a listening station where audiophiles could be part of a double-blind listening test, and at the end of each day he'd post the results.

Sounded like a great opportunity for the golden-ears crowd to prove themselves, but it failed. It failed because over the course of three days, he could not get a single attendee to sit down and back up their claims that they could hear the difference. I was at AES a few weeks back, and he was no longer there.

The running joke at AES is, "If you need to clear the room, yell, 'Fire!'. But if you need to clear it fast, yell, "Double-blind listening test!"
Everyone wants to claim they hear something other people can't because it allows them to feel superior in their tastes, but no one wants to actually have to justify all those $$$ they threw at it in a risky double-blind.
 

Gevalt

Member
Messages
1,924
Not trying to convince anybody, but can we agree that we all hear differently? We all think and feel differently, so ears too, eh comrades?

Huh? Vinyl is a reproduction... ask a long-term mastering engineer whether vinyl or digital requires more compromises in the mastering process. And anyone who claims to "hear" artifacts in a properly-done 44.1 kHz recording is either a puppy or fooling himself.
Vinyl makes the sound as an actual frictional sound in real life/real time. Please re-read my analogy.
But forget the deep stuff. Fact is, most CD's are mastered separately from vinyl stampers, with blocky waveforms and reduced dynamics, and those compressed CD's will never sound as good as a mere MP3 of a well-mastered release from any format. Get vinyl for the master if you can't hear resolution.

Everyone wants to claim they hear something other people can't because it allows them to feel superior in their tastes, but no one wants to actually have to justify all those $$$ they threw at it in a risky double-blind.
Everyone? You said everyone, and I think it's a hypocritical typo. I for one, spent $100 on my used Denon receiver. The golden eared aren't your enemies.

I can hear resolution and bit-depth and so can many others you need not be jealous of. Or suspicious of.
The hi-fi a-hole stereotype you cite has nothing to do with ears. I don't brag about having golden ears because it doesn't make me a better person or a better musician/fan. There are goons in every hobby, my man.

When my DAC switches itself back to 16-bit I always notice. Why must the unaware discount the personal experience-of-life of every single person on earth who ever disagreed with them? No offence. Cheers(non-alc fer mah eerz!).
 

Pongo

Member
Messages
1,090
Intonate your %$#@ing Guitar!!
Tune your %$#@ing Guitar!!

Make it THE first things you ever learn how to do on guitar.

Do it always.

ALWAYS!!! Especially if someone else is going to hear you play.... THAT'S YOU! You YouTube %$#@€rs.
Honestly, I've never had to.

Tune is in the fingers. If your guitar does not naturally intonate for you, the blame is on you for not bringing enough mojo.
 

Mikhael

Member
Messages
2,895
it's not the pops, clicks, or scratches that attract people to vinyl, it's the bass, and nothing's got the bass of a good 7-inch record, vinyl rules, and that's why I hunt it down all the time .... when that needle gets into that bass groove lightning flash anna weak heart drop
Huh? Bass in vinyl is artificial as heck, with phase anomalies and such. If the bass in the groove were real, it would be in a foot deep groove. That's why that @#$% RIAA curve exists, because it's impossible to cut a deep bass groove in vinyl; it has to be artificially EQ'd at playback.
 
Messages
6,753
I recognize that guitars don't have perfect intonation. Still, some players have managed to make them sound pretty good.

A bad player can take a well-adjusted guitar and make truly awful sounds with it.

Even a decent player can be pretty annoying if they don't bother to tune up.
 

apeekaboo

Member
Messages
854
Oh man... FRs in the hands of the unknowing is just a bad thing. I do not understand why someone would ever think of getting a guitar with this type of bridge and not understand a single thing about how it works - especially in the days of (cringe) You...Tube... Arghh I said it! But in all honesty, there IS some good tutorials out there how to fix and set up your guitar. Just hate listening to crappy guitarists playing a guitar that I dig.


But you have to be just that... close


Ahh, good 'ol pitch pipes. I used to use these to get my open string pitch set. But a real man can intonate with these :D But no, I like the clip-on tuners. Definitely nice to have when standing in the hallway behind the stage or something before stepping into the spotlight.
I'm just stirring my pot... :stir

I'm actually a massive fan of all instruments being in tune! We even got rid of a music box my daughter got when she was an infant, where the last tone in the song was way off... It was a mutual decision between me and my wife.
 

stanshall

Member
Messages
2,072
Huh? Bass in vinyl is artificial as heck, with phase anomalies and such. If the bass in the groove were real, it would be in a foot deep groove. That's why that @#$% RIAA curve exists, because it's impossible to cut a deep bass groove in vinyl; it has to be artificially EQ'd at playback.
bass on vinyl rules, all DJs know it, and so generations of funkateers, I've mixed too many records, not going to argue it, listen to CDs and MP3s and be happy

A/B roots reggae vinyl 7"s, 12"s, and LPs with CDs and other digital formats and you will see
 
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