AlNiCo 15 watt

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by µ¿ z3®ø™, Jul 1, 2006.

  1. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    OK, not having any experience w/ ted weber's 15 watt AlNiCo and minimal experience w/ current production celestions and a distinct feeling that the current production celestions don't really sound the same as the old ones (age and breaking in notwithstanding) can U guys help me in delineating the differences in sound between the two?
    they're gonna go in a hayseed 30 combo w/ top boost channel and mercury magnetics iron.
    and no, it's not gonna help to tell me which one U think is better. i want to know how they differ in sound from one another.
    thanx...
     
  2. wordsonyou

    wordsonyou Member

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    My experience is that the webers have tighter bass but are slightly darker...the celes compress a wee bit quicker and have a slightly more open sound that can get spitty at higher gain settings. Neither are my goto Vox speaker...it is a no brainer to go original if you can or even one of the silvers out of a super beatle will do imho a more realistic job. Others will say the webers or new cele nico's are exactly the same as the old ones - they are in the ballpark but not exact clones imho. The old celes are less spitty at high gains and have that weber bass tightness that I like - the best of both worlds! And they compress early - what's not to love?
     
  3. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    yup, the old AlNiCos have a really nice balance. i'm not sure how much is due to having them totally broken in ad the fact that the AlNiCo has a much shorted half life than ceramics.
    these AlNiCos will go in my hayseed 30 and i'm sure rob doesn't do vintage blues. webers are cheaper and maybe sound like they have been voiced to sound 'old'? celestions are more $$$ and require prodigious amounts of break-in?
    anyone else who can weigh in in the weber vis-a-vis celestion AlNiCos?
     
  4. wordsonyou

    wordsonyou Member

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    The webers are cheaper no doubt but they also take a fair bit of break in time, but I heard Weber will for a fee break them in for you.
     
  5. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    I like the Blue RI's a lot, and find them similar to old ones, except they are newer and sound like it ! Slightly more strident highs, a touch harsher/more defined.
    I find the Webers to be nice, but less efficient, less cut (almost like the tone on your guitar is rolled down a bit), and the breakup is smoother. In the ballpark, but different.
     
  6. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    no fee from me.
    that's what my iPod and mini jack to 1/4" adapter are for.

    hmm, i like the sound of smoother breakup. i also like the midrange compression of the celestions.
    the thought just occurred to me...
    why not a weber and a celestion?
     
  7. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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    Here's what I've gleaned so far:

    1. Weber 30W AlNiCo Blue Dogs sound close to the original old Celestions Blues.

    2. Weber 15W AlNiCo Blue Dogs sound more like the new Celestion Blues (made in England).

    3. The new Celestion Blues (made in England) do not sound as close to the old Celestion Blues as the Weber 30W AlNiCo Blue Dogs.

    4. The new "for Vox" Celestion Blues (made in China) sound a little closer to the old Celestion Blues (this came from a direct post from Mitch Colby).

    Here's my take:

    These are all great sounding speakers! You can do no wrong!! If these are among your choices and within your budget...count your blessings!!! Just make sure you break them in before you form any set-in-stone opinions.
    Note: I have owned the old original Celestion Blues at the same time I owned (and still own) the Weber AlNiCo Blue Dogs. My old AC30 had silver's too.

    ...and my preferred choice is a mix:

    [​IMG]

    Weber 30W AlNiCo Blue Dog and Silver Bell 2x12 mix.

    P.S. My most important piece of equipment is not a guitar, amp or effects pedal...it's a speaker. A well broken-in 30W Weber Blue Dog (no dope); this speaker, at just about ear-level, is the sweetest thing I know and I absolutely rely on it...it's the most important tone tool I own. I can imagine there are a few Marshall fans that can say the same thing about their particular go-to cab.
     
  8. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    hey man, thanx for that. i really appreciate it.
    not being familiar w/ the weber's at all and the current production celestion 15 watt only in a tweed deluxe and my only real extensive experience being original blues in a JMI, it's feedback like this that i find extremely helpful.
    happy 4th.
     
  9. dehughes

    dehughes Member

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    Great post. So, with two similar speakers (say, Blue and Blue), do you prefer to wire in series or parallel? How about with dissimilar speakers (say, Blue and Silver)?
     
  10. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    thru these old eyes it looks like series.
    squinting and making old, ugly man face.
     
  11. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    hey man, i just wanna make an informed choice as to what 'transducers' i'm gonna have rob throw in the hayseed 30 that, someday, i will eventually get when he's done building the gosh darned thing.
    already made the choice of 15 watt celestion blues for the JMJ/north coast that will appear in august.
    i value all informed and experiential opinions, even tho' sometimes it causes a certain amount of obfuscation in my cognitive ability to formulate a choice.
    an embarrassment of riches.
    thanx for the input david.
     
  12. The Whiz

    The Whiz Member

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    I've got Weber Alnico Blue Dog 30 watters. They took quite a while to break in. Sure sound nice now. They are definitely a bit warmer than the Celestions. The Celestions are a bit chimier and articulate to my ear.

    Never tried a Weber 15 watt version, but it's my understanding that it sounds pretty similar to the new Celestion. Maybe mix a weber 30 watter and 15 watter. The blue/silver mix (above post) is very popular too.
     
  13. trisonic

    trisonic Member

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    Just add my tuppence - the new Celestion Blues are as impressive as the old ones when broken in. I cannot think of a better guitar speaker, frankly.
    I like to use Greenbacks for different applications, though.

    Best, Pete.
     
  14. Rusty G.

    Rusty G. Member

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    I've never played through a Celestion Blue. . .but, I've got a Weber 15 watt ceramic in my Fargen Miniplexi and it's a great speaker. Now, here's my position. . .I purchased a Gabriel Voxer a couple of months ago and ordered a 2 X 12 with G12H30's in it from Avatar. The Voxer sounds really good with the G12H30's. . .But not outstanding. However, running through a Dr.Z AirBrake into the 15 watt Weber Ceramic Blue dog it's OUTSTANDING. It creates a vintage sound like nothing I've ever heard. I mean, the speaker itself is a LARGE part of the tone equation. It doesn't have much high end and it certainly doesn't have much low end push. . .but it has an absolutely incredible mid range sparkle and grind that's "MY SOUND". I think it sounds best with a Les Paul or P-90 guitar. I am completely blown away by the speaker. . .The problem is that it starts to "fart out" when I push it. . .thus the need for the AirBrake with an 18 watt amp. I'm thinking I want to buy a real Celestion Blue to see what the deal is. I can't imagine it sounding any better than the Weber. . .But, it may, and I'm open to find out. Anyway. . .the problem with 15 watt speakers is that they loose their sparkle when pushed too hard. . .At least, that's my perception. I'm probably going to buy a Celestion Blue and load it with the Weber into a cab and see how that works.
     
  15. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    better, schmetter.
    AlNiCos and ceramics are two entirely different beasts in my books and altho' U'll hear both sides of the argument from different ppl, i'm not certain that 'better' always applies. ceramics have a certain sound and any marshall 4-12 after the mid sixties or so typifies part of that sound. AlNiCos are different, no doubt about it. they have an interesting way in how the handle the initial transient that is very compelling. almost as if the note is escaping from the amp as U are thinking about it. they can provide an uncanny connection to the amp that, to me, ceramics don't have nearly as much of. AlNiCos also have this lovely, natural midrange compression going on that is very flattering to music.
    so, yeah, U owe it to Urself to check out a little AlNiCo 'aroma' as harvey 'gizmo' rosenberg used to call it. U still may like Ur ceramics better, but at least U'll know what all the fuss is about.

    ya know pete, sometimes i think the same thing, as well.
    and then i change my mind.
    specifically, i'm referring to the blue when used in a tweed deluxe 'clone'. my vicky came w/ a blue in it (i've been told that's kind of odd that it did) and after break-in it had all of the impressive features that we all know and love. it was in recording that amp that i started to think that it actually (now get this) sounded too impressive in relation to getting a more 'vintage' type of sound from a deluxe 'clone'. swapping out the blue for a kendrick ceramic that i had kickin' around straight away gave me what i was looking for and the track sat better in the mix.
    now i'm not so much of a gearhead that i swap out speakers in my amps all the time. i rarely do. but i do swap out the blue and the kendrick in my vicky d-luxe 'clone' depending upon the alignment of the cosmos.
    i've subsequently acquired mike clark's deluxe 'clone', as well. but i have yet to swap out the blue in it for the kendrick.
    but if we're talking about AC30 tones (we are, really) i think that the only real path to that goodness is w/ AlNiCo. my only dilemma is to decide on which AlNiCo i'm gonna have rob put in my hayseed 30. i'm tempted to go w/ the weber's just to find out what they are all about. i have a north coast music fawn tolex cab coming to me loaded w/ celestions.
    see what i mean.
    eventually i'm gonna answer my own question.
    but i really do appreciate all the input.
     
  16. Roe

    Roe Member

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    the celestion blue will handle less power than the ceramic weber.
     

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