Alt.Country Club-Lucky Number 7

[shark_bite]

Todd, next time you start a new thread, you should put a link to it in the old one! I saw that you had mentioned it, but thought you might have been bluffing when I couldn't find this one...

Anyway I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'll put it here too. I think I'm giving up on fuzz. I come into the alt.country thing via stuff like Wilco and Ryan Adams too, but the work I like best is what they did that was influenced by guys like Gram Parsons, and less like the more punk side of things. So... I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I can't find a home for that fuzz sound.

Go figure the pedal that really did me in was a Spaghetti Western Fuzz. After hearing you guys rave about it, and then plugging it in and realizing it did a lot of what my Bag of Dicks does, and realizing that when I've had that on a board I've probably not stomped it even once in a gig, that light bulb went on over my head. Time to move on.

 

[Jacobpaul81]

. I think I'm giving up on fuzz.

I say this yearly. I'm feeling ya. My favorite music by those aforementioned bands is the graham sounding stuff and the rockier, late-replacements influenced stuff. Things like Whiskeytown's "Revenge" or Wilco's "Too Far Apart" have always topped my list.

 

[Bobbofallenstar]

Oh hey - we're all in here now huh? Lucky number 7? Seven on the line? This just reminded me of the Jukebox Junkies song. I love me some Jukebox Junkies. They sprung from Five Easy Pieces. REALLY AWESOME rootsy rock stuff from L.A.

 

[carljoensson]

Anyway I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'll put it here too. I think I'm giving up on fuzz. I come into the alt.country thing via stuff like Wilco and Ryan Adams too, but the work I like best is what they did that was influenced by guys like Gram Parsons, and less like the more punk side of things. So... I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I can't find a home for that fuzz sound.

Go figure the pedal that really did me in was a Spaghetti Western Fuzz. After hearing you guys rave about it, and then plugging it in and realizing it did a lot of what my Bag of Dicks does, and realizing that when I've had that on a board I've probably not stomped it even once in a gig, that light bulb went on over my head. Time to move on.

Because you can always move back to fuzz land if you feel the urge!

I have a fuzz on my board (Analogman Sunface NKT-275 white dot yada yada...on/off switch...loaded with carbon battery ....sigh). GregV made me buy it. http://www.mikepiera.com/samples/GregV_SunFace_Jam1.mp3 It really sounds magic, doesn't it? Later, from various clips I learnt everything GregV touches sounds like GregV=magic.

So, I haven't got the chops for screaming leads, nor do I like screaming leads. In the band I play with I use it to to play simple melody lines in unison with a flute on pretty, folky songs. The contrast in timbre and texture works great and gets quite a few comments after a gig. Haunting and troubling in some way. I also use it for feedback and noise (Neil Young/Nels Cline) but also for grittier overdrive sounds.

I haven't yet mastered the classic rock idea of "I just had the fuzz switched on all night, getting various shades of fuzz, dirt and clean by working the volume knob." Maybe that's the Hendrix way of doing it - and really a lot of people talking about fuzzes seem to be all focused on different guitar gods, right?

ah well - I'll be doing something new with the Wild Dog soon./C

 

[coldfingaz]

Todd, next time you start a new thread, you should put a link to it in the old one! I saw that you had mentioned it, but thought you might have been bluffing when I couldn't find this one...

I'm not giving up on Volume 6 until all BBQ discussions have been exhausted or the mods shut it down... whichever comes first!

 

[gtrshow]

I've been away for a bit so missed #6 completely, maybe #5 too!

Main amps are now a Tone King Meteor 1 and Victoria Deluxe, and that pair is working out great. And I've been fooling with a couple of C-Bread pedals, FN5 and DLS, and really digging them so far.

I also have a '57 RI Duo Jet on the way. Hoping it can assert it self as #2 behind my Bluesboy.

 

[carljoensson]

I've been away for a bit so missed #6 completely, maybe #5 too!

Main amps are now a Tone King Meteor 1 and Victoria Deluxe, and that pair is working out great. And I've been fooling with a couple of C-Bread pedals, FN5 and DLS, and really digging them so far.

I also have a '57 RI Duo Jet on the way. Hoping it can assert it self as #2 behind my Bluesboy.

Hi Gtrshow!
I bought a TonePress from you a few years ago. Worked great, but swapped it for a Diamond. Cheers/Carl

 

[erksin]

I think I'm giving up on fuzz.

I think the conclusion I've come to is that a cranked 5E3-type sound is all the fuzz I need. Boost that with a compressor for more saturated stuff and still keep the bottom from getting too big.

Since I've been playing nothing but my Erksquire for the past two weeks, this has been made crystal clear to me. Working the volume and tone controls on the guitar and leaving everything else alone aside from a boost of some sort on occasion. I'm getting at least a half dozen distinctly different sounds from this approach, and it only has one pickup. Its been a revelation to be honest. I've pulled two dirt boxes off my board, and I think I'm gonna lose a few of the modulations as well.

 

[erksin]

Hi Gtrshow!
I bought a TonePress from you a few years ago. Worked great, but swapped it for a Diamond. Cheers/Carl

I am falling in love with the Diamond Comp all over again this week - this pedal LOVES Tele bridge pickups.

 

[gtrshow]

Hi Gtrshow!
I bought a TonePress from you a few years ago. Worked great, but swapped it for a Diamond. Cheers/Carl

Hey Carl,

I actually had a couple of TP's before finally accepting that I'm just not a comp kinda guy. I went through quite a few of them too, but all this talk of the Diamond, well, you know...

Cheers,
Pete

 

[shark_bite]

I think the conclusion I've come to is that a cranked 5E3-type sound is all the fuzz I need. Boost that with a compressor for more saturated stuff and still keep the bottom from getting too big.

Since I've been playing nothing but my Erksquire for the past two weeks, this has been made crystal clear to me. Working the volume and tone controls on the guitar and leaving everything else alone aside from a boost of some sort on occasion. I'm getting at least a half dozen distinctly different sounds from this approach, and it only has one pickup. Its been a revelation to be honest. I've pulled two dirt boxes off my board, and I think I'm gonna lose a few of the modulations as well.

That's interesting. I'm in a weird spot with all effects right now, to be honest. I've got a very small board (PT Mini) that now sports a Timmy, a Lovepedal Eternity (Roadhouse), a Klon, a Magnavibe, and a Marshall Echo Head. The Klon and the E are set for really light boosts, more like a tone shaping tool than an overdrive, and the Timmy is a good thing to hit either or both with as it provides some real transparent breakup for whatever "boost" I'm running after it.

You mention cranked up tweed. This further illustrates the fact that I shouldn't be using fuzz. I haven't ever really liked that sound a ton - I'm listening to some old Stones stuff today thinking, "eh. Wish it was cleaner and less flubby." Using that same board, light OD all around, I was playing through my Victoria 45410 at a rehearsal yesterday, and it was really loose on the bottom. Frustratingly loose, really. I was about ready to throw the amp out the window. I have not yet played a single gig start to finish where I was happier with the Vic than I've been the last few years with my dearly departed Bassman LTD. I really think I need to go back to the store and see if I can plead for an exchange or something else or who knows what, because that Victoria is driving me up the wall. I hate it.

On the other hand, when my roommate got his Vicky (an 80212) he said he felt the same way. His solution was to gig it to death for a month. After that month, he felt he had it figured out and now he loves it. Of course, an 80212 is a totally different beast than a 45410, but I do really like it when I hear him. He was doing an alt.country-ish sort of gig at a park in our 'hood yesterday so I stopped down, and man. He sounds great with just a Tele, a Holy Grail, and the Vic. That's one of the big reasons I got my Victoria - heard his and knew they made a great amp. But wow, I have never missed an amplifier so much in my life.

Anyway, I think I hate the Vic for the same reason I can't bond with fuzz. I like a tight bottom end. I'm really used to Blackface amps, and the saggiest thing I've owned and loved away from that would be my Goodsells. I guess this may be another lesson learned in the making here though, but it doesn't explain why I loved the LTD so much and can't friggin deal with this Victoria setup.

I've got a spare LTD at the house right now, so I'm debating pulling it out tonight instead of the Victoria to see if really like it better. Heaven help me if I do.

 

[beautiful liar]

oops, blink and you miss it- I must have blinked yesterday. Anyway, just checking in. excuse the fact that it's on page 3. carry on.

 

[erksin]

You mention cranked up tweed. This further illustrates the fact that I shouldn't be using fuzz. I haven't ever really liked that sound a ton - I'm listening to some old Stones stuff today thinking, "eh. Wish it was cleaner and less flubby."

I get around that by running two amps - my 6G2 Princeton which is VERY similar to a 5E3, a little tighter and less gainy - and my Gibson Falcon which is more open and clear with more headroom and a tight bottom. The 6G2 provides the chewy midrange, the Falcon provides the definition. At lower volumes I just use my Formula No. 5 to replicate what I'm missing when I turn down, or I use it to boost the amps into fuzz-ish territory when they're cranked up.

The key to getting chunkier, tighter sounds from a 5E3 is to roll your guitar back to like 7 - everything will tighten up and get real punchy. If you're not a player who is into that technique, I can see why you'd not be happy with it. It requires you to interact with it and pay attention to how its behaving.

This GregV vid is the perfect tutorial on 5E3 type playing:



Lots of punch and clarity, and a tight bottom too. You just have to know where to find it.

 

[Grant Ferstat]

I get around that by running two amps - my 6G2 Princeton which is VERY similar to a 5E3, a little tighter and less gainy - and my Gibson Falcon which is more open and clear with more headroom and a tight bottom. The 6G2 provides the chewy midrange, the Falcon provides the definition. At lower volumes I just use my Formula No. 5 to replicate what I'm missing when I turn down, or I use it to boost the amps into fuzz-ish territory when they're cranked up.

The key to getting chunkier, tighter sounds from a 5E3 is to roll your guitar back to like 7 - everything will tighten up and get real punchy. If you're not a player who is into that technique, I can see why you'd not be happy with it. It requires you to interact with it and pay attention to how its behaving.

This GregV vid is the perfect tutorial on 5E3 type playing:



Lots of punch and clarity, and a tight bottom too. You just have to know where to find it.

Not disagreeing with your premise Erksin that Greg's vid provides a good tutorial on that style of playing but according to both Greg and the builder the Crema Wheat has more headroom and is tighter in the bottom end than a regular 5E3, it's tweaked that way deliberately. A friend of mine here in Perth JimmyR does similar things with his 5E3 builds. I can't remember in technical terms what he says he does but I have played his amps both at standard 5E3 stages and post tweaks and the tweaks would definitely make the amps more useable for me.

On the fuzz subject. Well, many have you have witnessed my Fuzz battles! I've been through a few and, as much as I admire Louris and Doug Pettibone's fuzz useage I've come to the conclusion that with my style of playing, amplification, and the Jayco band mix scenario that fuzzes are not a live proposition for me. Same with compression actually.

I find I need a tightness in the bottom end to differentiate myself from Andrew's wide-screen and sometimes droney upside-down alterna tunings. I try to go for a fat organic sort of sound that is still somewhat "confined" within the band mix and the somewhat undefined edges of the Fuzz spectrum don't really help with that.

 

[erksin]

Yeah I realize the Tungsten is a bit tighter than a typical 5E3, but the technique still applies. He's able to get sounds out of that one amp that I need two to accomplish basically the same thing since it has an extended freq range beyond a typical 5E3.

 

[erksin]

Ever try a treble booster, Grant? It cops the same basic grind as a Fuzz Face style fuzz, but the bottom is way tighter. Its very focused in terms of EQing.

 

[todd richman]

Great point erskin. I think a T-Booster is superb way of capturing some of the fuzz essence without the mushy bottom and is very focused. Depending on the brand you get, some are also more raw and open than others-the Analogman Beano Boost comes to mind for that.

Grant, I would love to hear you incorporate a 5E3 or even a low power tweed Twin in your music.

 

[Lampasas]

Not disagreeing with your premise Erksin that Greg's vid provides a good tutorial on that style of playing but according to both Greg and the builder the Crema Wheat has more headroom and is tighter in the bottom end than a regular 5E3, it's tweaked that way deliberately. A friend of mine here in Perth JimmyR does similar things with his 5E3 builds. I can't remember in technical terms what he says he does but I have played his amps both at standard 5E3 stages and post tweaks and the tweaks would definitely make the amps more useable for me.

On the fuzz subject. Well, many have you have witnessed my Fuzz battles! I've been through a few and, as much as I admire Louris and Doug Pettibone's fuzz useage I've come to the conclusion that with my style of playing, amplification, and the Jayco band mix scenario that fuzzes are not a live proposition for me.

My cousin/amp guru did a few tweaks to my 5e3 to tighten the low end and increase headroom, and even then I had to replace the Weber alnico he originally installed with a Hellatone 30 to really rein in the lows. It sounds great now, though. I'm anticipating similar issues with my recently-acquired Super clone, but won't know for sure until practice on Thursday.

As for fuzzes, I mostly keep one around for sentimental reasons (I'm a huge Louris and Marc Ford fan). I sheepishly stepped on my Huck at practice a while back, though, and the response was very positive. I told them I thought it was "too much," they disagreed. So now it's used to liven up a closing number and give me some end-of-set feedback.

In other news, looks like I'm going to do some studio work with this new band soon. I might actually have something to show for my gear nerdery. One more tidbit: an era has officially come to a close, I think. The Bigsby has been pulled from my Les Paul. I tried oh so hard to make it work, different bridges, saddles, nuts, etc., but there's always some little problem or tuning issue that I can't get past. Being slightly out of tune part of the time was fine when I was younger, but not now. I saw Mike Campbell on SNL with his strings wrapped around his stopbar, so I immediately did that.

 

[Prof.Fuzz]

My favorite fuzztone right now is the Sweetback stacked into the Ghetto Stomp. GS is set for unity gain with my amp and is working mainly as an EQ to fatten the mids and lows. Stepping on the Sweetback goes right into melting tweed Neil Young fuzz territory. And very responsive to volume knob tweaks. Pretty cool, considering that neither of the two pedals in question are fuzzes.

That said, I still have a Controfuzz, Spaghetti Western, and Euthymia Crucible fuzz on the board.

 

[erksin]

Proud Alt.C dad moment of the day:

My kid is downstairs singing and banging out 'The Weight' on piano as I type.