Alto TS 210 vs Line 6 L2M

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by ivanh3, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. LordByron

    LordByron The Dude abides! Supporting Member

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    A couple of questions:

    1) I notice that a number of folks seem to gravitate towards the 10" version of their speaker of choice, rather than the 12" version. Is this a size/weight, cost, or performance issue? (I.e. Does the 10" give a better sound performance with a modeler than a 12"? I ask because I seem to recall having seen at least a couple of folks taking about excessive boominess in the 12 Altos and maybe another brand as well... but can't seem to find the posts I'm remembering, so I don't recall how that discussion played out.)

    2) Has anyone other than @eriwebnerr had experience with the JBL EOS speakers? Those look to be within my price/performance sweet spot. (I'm not inclined to step up to the Yamahas or the Line 6 L series unless and until I commit to go all in on using a modeling rig for gigging, which I am not yet there on, given that I've only just stepped up from the POD series... not really ready for prime time in my book... to the Helix.

    3) Other than the Altos and the JBLs, is there anything else in the the roughly $300 range that I should be looking at as well?

    Thanks for any input you folks can provide!
     
  2. MusicLaw

    MusicLaw Member

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    The lower priced and lighter weight Yamaha DBR10 sounds nearly identical to the DXR10! If you don't need the DXR's additional Input nor additional power output and Line 3 Input, the DBR is a strong contender. There is a refined sound that the Yamaha DBR/DXR/DXS series provide. This may be why they are so popular with Kemper and Helix owners. Typically I choose JBLs, and I have several pairs of their Studio Monitors. However, for use with my Helix as Floor Wedges, Backline or Main monitors, I preferred the Yamaha DXR10 over any of the JBLs. That being said, I also use a pair of JBL LSR308 near field Studio Monitors with my Helix.

    Regarding the 12" vs 10", I do feel the 10" served better for electric and acoustic guitar and with an inherently tighter lower end. The 10" cabinet is also smaller and lighter. And, as I run two of these, there's plenty of air moving and a very wide sound field. YMMV.
     
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  3. LordByron

    LordByron The Dude abides! Supporting Member

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    As I recall, the DBR series does not have a DSP, correct? If so, does that make any material difference in its performance vs either the DXRs (or the JBL EOS)?
     
  4. AD1982

    AD1982 Member

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    The L2M is incredibly darker sounding than the TS210. I can see where the OP comes from if there was no global EQ fix for the TS210. I spent nearly two years with one and had killer experiences with it. If I go back to digital, I'll buy two in a heart beat.
     
  5. MusicLaw

    MusicLaw Member

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    Yamaha's DBR/DXR/DSR have the same DSP! It is part of the mojo blended into why the Yamaha's sound so freaking good!

    Check out the Yamaha DBR/DXR/DSR pdf literature brochure. I have it on my tablet, but don't remember where I downloaded it. I Googled it last year. SO you should find it easily. BTW, I did try copying some of it's body copy and they have the PDF Security set to dis-allow copying.
     
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  6. Fireheart7

    Fireheart7 Member

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    I have an Alto 210a. Good but not great. It is not flat to my ears but way too much bass. Tried on its side monitor style, on its short side speaker style, and on a stand off the floor for zero coupling effect... too much bass. I had to buy a small mixer to flatten it up andcthat did the trick.
    I refused to change the bass on my modeler since my true flat in ears and FOH were fine with its eq.
    I would buy something other than Alto if I could travel back in time.
    They are ok. Definitely do not sound flat eq at all. I mean flat as a good thing to replicate what your modeler puts out.
     
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  7. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    This is just based on my own ears/intuition, and with a pretty small sample set of two or three 12" 2-way powered cabs (Mackie and EV) vs. the Alto TS210. My sense is that the 10" versions serve better in FR amp modeling rigs because the crossover to the low-frequency driver is pitched differently (presumably higher) resulting in a more natural frequency response through the mids. (Amp/cab sims: mids are everything!) The 12" solutions I've used all had a ton of low-end (boomy by default), really focused highs (sibilant by default), with a black hole in the middle. I could kind of EQ my way around it, but in a band mix these cabs always sounded odd, like they were a mile away.

    I've yet to own any 10" FR powered cabs besides the TS210, but vs. the EV ELX112p etc. I just love it. Cheap, light, full-featured, attractive, and it flatters the Helix IMO. (Re: cheap, so much so that they're a good way to test the FR waters, and will serve as backups or whatever if you decide to move on.) I'm sure there are other 10" solutions (Yamaha for one) that sound better, if budget isn't a concern. I also imagine there are 12" solutions with more sophisticated crossover technology to address that vacuum in the mids - I just haven't heard any yet.
     
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  8. cbeattyjr

    cbeattyjr Member

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    I think you've nailed the challenge for using amp modelers live. Your presets sound very different through different monitors and at different volumes. I used amp modelers live for many years and have recently switched back to using a 15 watt tube amp (using a Zoom G3N for effects). However, I love amp modeling for recording! I guess I just gave up on getting my recorded tone live.
     
  9. ivanh3

    ivanh3 Member

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    The more I use my L2T, the more I love it. It fills the practice space and most stages, and it sounds relatively close to the sound my Helix (and AX8, and Atomic AF) makes coming out of my near field computer reference monitors. We largely play in two local clubs that both have decent house PAs. Typically, my modelers sound like they are losing just a smidge of high end through both of the house PAs. I never use the house stage monitors, the L2T is not hard to transport.

    Just sold my last amp head (although I do still have rack tube amp). Don't foresee going back. Love the load in, love the consistency, love the control, and I really do like my tone.
     
  10. Pietro

    Pietro 2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy

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    I've heard of a LOT of problems with the Alto speakers, more than stuff that costs a lot more, but duh... And the small (10" I think?) ones that a church I have played at has do not impress me in the slightest. Don't seem built to last, don't sound great. And that hiss, you are not the first to say that. This is what you get with less pricey speakers that have less pricy components inside them... (also duh...)

    For the money, they're fine I'm sure (although I don't know how they'll last, but if you can afford something better for your (probably pricy) Modeler/Profiler, you should go there.

    THAT SAID... I think a lot of times people who don't like a certain FRFR just bought the wrong size, and if they go either up or down one size might end up happier with the same brand.
     
  11. ivanh3

    ivanh3 Member

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    I am not so sure about speaker size in the case of FRFR. The L2Ts are also 10 inch speakers. I don't feel that the sound coming out is too thin, but I have never a/b'd them with a larger speaker or a setup with a sub.
     
  12. pomfret

    pomfret Member

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    I've never have had a problem with my 10" Alto ts 110a in five years of use and hundreds of gigs. They're ok not only for the money but compared to more expensive speakers, previously I had RCF and QSC and don't miss them.

    Still want to try something like Matrix or CLR, I'm sure that will be a step up from the rest.
     
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  13. Pietro

    Pietro 2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy

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    Well, at the very least, you are comparing two completely different price range (and quality range) of speakers, so I think that your results are probably believable. Also, adding a sub for a guitar signal is probably ludicrous.
     
  14. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    I know this is an older thread but I had a pair of TS110 speakers and thought they sounded great. I think a lot of the difference in opinion here might be swayed by what kind of music you play. I bought the atomic neo CLR cab and hated it compared to the TS110A speakers and sold it right away. It was very middy and bottom heavy and not nearly as transparent. I think if you are playing nu-metal/djent you would prefer the atomic but for jazz, funk and fusion, the TS110a speakers sounded better.

    I switched over to a pair of Epifani UL112 cabs last year because I was also playing bass and the TS110 speakers didn't work for bass but I'm not doing much bass anymore and just purchased a pair of the TS210 speakers. I'll report back with my findings in about a week.
     
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  15. jpage

    jpage Member

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    You need to change your sig to ex-World Champion Cavs :aok
     
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  16. jpage

    jpage Member

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    Or "Future Champion Browns"??
     
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  17. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    already changed it though I should really amend it to "home of the dysfunctional cleveland cavs"
     
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