Am I just getting old? Helix editor is just so...

Tito83

Member
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2,766
Awkward.

KNOBS, WHERE ARE THE FREAKIN KNOBS? Those bars look just so unguitar-like, it bothers the hell out of me. I just keep giving it this funny look while, tilting my head, trying to figure it out and it's just so so sooo weird. I get it on an Ipad, I get it... But on a regular computer? I need knobs! I'm glad Line 6 worked hard to make the Helix easy to edit by itself, because the editor just hurts me as a guitar player and as a human being really.


*I really hate the f'ing editor, but take this lightly, I'm just having fun with my own particular first world problem*
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
7,221
Yeah, skeuomorphic interfaces are pretty much the definition of form over function. No reason fo Line 6 to spend all of their time creating detailed amp head and pedal visages that somehow scale up and down perfectly for every resolution.

I've had more than a few VSTs that rolled that way, and tweaking and dialing is always harder.

It wouldn't make sense on Helix anyway as the ondevice UI eschews that completely. It's all about clean, sparse graphics and numerical values. The editor should be the same.
 

atquinn

Silver Supporting Member
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9,748
Can you type in numerical values in the Helix Editor if you want to or do you have to use the sliders?
-
Austin
 

mjstack

Member
Messages
31
You can right-click the value to enter something with the keyboard.

I've gotten kind of used to the slider controls, better than knobs for sure. They should at least put any text overlaying the sliders outside of the slider graphic. And the editor definitely needs more keyboard control. Hopefully that's something they'll work on.
 

phil_m

Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Gold Supporting Member
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12,373
I hate virtual knobs for the most part. Actually, a long time ago, one of Line 6's software guys asked the expert users our opinion on a few different design options. I remember the one was highly detailed, kind of like the old POD Farm gui. It lost out by a pretty overwhelming margin in the vote. The sliders are nice because they give you an immediate graphical representation as to what the relative values parameters are set to, imo.
 

dray3573

Member
Messages
279
I much prefer the bars on a computer editor. With knobs you never know in which direction you have to move the mouse... Or I'm just too stupid :D
Perfectly said. I typically like the visual of knobs if they are done right. I've seen some knobs on software that where visually horrible and some that where great. There is something to be said about how our minds interpret visual cues, but mDan hit the nail on the head when it comes to ease of control.
 

3dognate

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,062
Yeah, skeuomorphic interfaces are pretty much the definition of form over function. No reason fo Line 6 to spend all of their time creating detailed amp head and pedal visages that somehow scale up and down perfectly for every resolution.

I've had more than a few VSTs that rolled that way, and tweaking and dialing is always harder.

It wouldn't make sense on Helix anyway as the ondevice UI eschews that completely. It's all about clean, sparse graphics and numerical values. The editor should be the same.
Yes, these days are over.. we are moving toward functional / industrial design...

The faux analog interfaces are being dropped left and right. It was kitsch for a while but as @mikah912 pointed out the industry is heading toward these sparse and quick and easy to read / manipulate interfaces. I work with UI designers and if a project team came to a design review with skeuomorphic interface they'd get shutdown immediately and would be required to redesign according to guidelines/standards that we have in place. (It's unlikely these days that it would happen but it has in the past.)
 

atquinn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,748
One cool thing about knobs is that it can prevent scrolling hell when it comes to adjusting parameters (some people are using laptops for editing and don't have a ton of screen real estate). As long as that's not an issue, I like sliders with the ability to enter in numerical values (or use arrow keys to adjust). And horizontal sliders are alot easier for me than vertical ones, so good move there.
-
Austin
 

gkinder

Member
Messages
155
Yes, these days are over.. we are moving toward functional / industrial design...

The faux analog interfaces are being dropped left and right. It was kitsch for a while but as @mikah912 pointed out the industry is heading toward these sparse and quick and easy to read / manipulate interfaces. I work with UI designers and if a project team came to a design review with skeuomorphic interface they'd get shutdown immediately and would be required to redesign according to guidelines/standards that we have in place. (It's unlikely these days that it would happen but it has in the past.)
Agree 100% Same here with our UI designs, No virtual knobs allowed.....As long as sliders have been designed/calibrated to increment smoothly/granularly they are great....do like UI's that allow for keyboard entry in addition to the sliders. Worse than knobs though is a slider UI with poor calibration/granularity, pure frustration.
 

3dognate

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,062
I'm another who prefers sliders. I always find turning dials awkward with a mouse.
Some people get a funky emotional satisfaction behind say a Marshall amp sim having a Marshall head graphic and marshall looking control panel and switches... I get it... and that was the thing in 2005... but time to move forward there are much more efficient ways to navigate in software.
 

Tito83

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2,766
I'm not at all against technology. See, I don't know about your gear, but my guitars never had faders, they all have knobs and, with very few (and mostly eccentric) exceptions, pedals and amps also follow this rule. I'm used to looking at an amp and understanding what's going on, and these faders always kinda confuses me, a bit like some odd color combination of letters and background that will make things hard to read. And for "touchscreens", I said I get it for Ipads, just not for my desktop. For me, to click and drag is the same on faders or knobs, it works just the same, but the visual side of the fader just seems wrong from the perspective of a person who spent his whole life tweaking knobs.
 

mbenigni

Member
Messages
7,835
I'm not at all against technology. See, I don't know about your gear, but my guitars never had faders, they all have knobs and, with very few (and mostly eccentric) exceptions, pedals and amps also follow this rule. I'm used to looking at an amp and understanding what's going on, and these faders always kinda confuses me, a bit like some odd color combination of letters and background that will make things hard to read. And for "touchscreens", I said I get it for Ipads, just not for my desktop. For me, to click and drag is the same on faders or knobs, it works just the same, but the visual side of the fader just seems wrong from the perspective of a person who spent his whole life tweaking knobs.
I hear you. That makes sense for some stuff. (Some deep parameters don't have real world, physical equivalents.). But you have to consider that some people will run the PC version on small touchscreen PCs, and Line 6 doesn't necessarily want to maintain two versions of the same PC editor.
 
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GuitarGalah

Member
Messages
268
Yes, you are just getting old. In fact, you appear to be past the "luddite point", where you are actually believe the older way of doing things is somehow clearer or more efficient, when (at least in this case) it is not. :p
Knobs are great in the physical world. They save space and they are good for tactile reasons. But there are drawbacks.
They are difficult to read visually, thus they require more mental activity when adjusting positions.
Sliders (or faders, if you prefer) take more room, but encompass the entire range of the parameter, and clearly show the present position.

Should an editor be released with knobs, rather than sliders, I don't doubt a small percentage of people would use it. But eventually, most of these people (and I include you, Tito83), will appreciate the advantages of the clearer, more precise editor, and use it instead. I cannot see anyone moving to a harder to understand and use editor, merely for the sake of older sensibilities.

But then, I may be wrong. I haven't the ability, like Tito83, to look at a bunch of knobs and know "what's going on".
Each knob take a little processing in my head, to create an idea of where they are and what they are doing.
Sliders don't confuse me, they clearly represent each parameter - they give (for me) an actual idea of what is happening. Still some processing involved, but not as much.
In both cases, I have to aggregate this information in my head to understand "what's going on".
Of course, most of the time I hear "what's going on", and I have some idea of the parameter settings, just from listening to the result.

Having said all that;
I can appreciate your familiarity with knobs, and that this familiarity would lead to greater ease of use in your case. Perhaps a way can be devised to create a 'front-end UI' with knobs and a setup more to your liking. I have edited many a UI in my day. The Helix edit app itself does not appear to be editable by third parties, but there are still ways around that. How important is it to you?
 




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