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Amp1 & Helix/Fractal/Kemper users...

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,379
Anyone here use your Amp1 as a power amp for your Helix/Fractal/Kemper into a traditional guitar cab? If so what did you think?

It seems to make a lot of sense to me given the nano tube technology in the amp1 is designed just to get the sound and feel of a tube amp but curious what your results were. I would think this would be an optimal choice given the "nanotube" isn't imparting a specific tube "color" into the tone just feel where as something like the PS2 or a FX return of a traditional amp would impart tube color to some extent.

I got an Amp1 here and thinking about getting a Kemper again and the only drawback I can think of is the Amp1 is only 100w and while loud may not be enough power at bigger gigs for some folks.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
2,001
Anyone here use your Amp1 as a power amp for your Helix/Fractal/Kemper into a traditional guitar cab? If so what did you think?

It seems to make a lot of sense to me given the nano tube technology in the amp1 is designed just to get the sound and feel of a tube amp but curious what your results were. I would think this would be an optimal choice given the "nanotube" isn't imparting a specific tube "color" into the tone just feel where as something like the PS2 or a FX return of a traditional amp would impart tube color to some extent.

I got an Amp1 here and thinking about getting a Kemper again and the only drawback I can think of is the Amp1 is only 100w and while loud may not be enough power at bigger gigs for some folks.
It’s an amp modeler, how would it be an ideal power amp for another modeler? I don’t think it has an input that bypasses the amp section?

D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,379
It’s an amp modeler, how would it be an ideal power amp for another modeler? I don’t think it has an input that bypasses the amp section?

D

You would plug your Kemper/Fractal/Helix into the FX loop return of the Amp1 so you would only be using the power amp of the Amp1.

In this case you would be amplifying your modeller with a flat Class D power amp like with a SD 170 etc but with the Amp1 you would get the feel and response of the Nanotube.
 

timbuck2

Member
Messages
1,233
yes a modeler with a micro tube power amp onboard..similar to the black spirit floor(not mini tube there just ss)
 

108

Member
Messages
2,099
The Amp1 is not a modeler. It’s an analog solid state amplifier. The reverb is digital, but that’s it. There is a tiny tube in the power section, not sure exactly what it’s purpose is but it’s some sort of stage at the front of the poweramp for special sauce. It’s ridiculously good, and more than loud enough for any band (I’m using mine in a thrash band). I briefly experimented with running the FM3 with the Amp1 by going into the effects return, but found that the Amp1 preamp sounded better than running the FM3 using a similarly flavored amp. It could probably do what you want, OP.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
18,849
I wonder which is tonally better between the Blu Iridium and the HK Black Spirit board? :idea
 

108

Member
Messages
2,099
I feel like there’s another comparison out there, actually. That Andertons is not what I remember.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
2,001
The Amp1 is not a modeler. It’s an analog solid state amplifier. The reverb is digital, but that’s it. There is a tiny tube in the power section, not sure exactly what it’s purpose is but it’s some sort of stage at the front of the poweramp for special sauce. It’s ridiculously good, and more than loud enough for any band (I’m using mine in a thrash band). I briefly experimented with running the FM3 with the Amp1 by going into the effects return, but found that the Amp1 preamp sounded better than running the FM3 using a similarly flavored amp. It could probably do what you want, OP.
Semantics, it models 4 amp tones.

D
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
2,001
You would plug your Kemper/Fractal/Helix into the FX loop return of the Amp1 so you would only be using the power amp of the Amp1.

In this case you would be amplifying your modeller with a flat Class D power amp like with a SD 170 etc but with the Amp1 you would get the feel and response of the Nanotube.
My bad, missed the effects return. I’d think you’d have better luck with a dedicated small power amp though and let your modeler do its thing. In the Helix or kemper, you can’t deactivate the power amp modeling. You may or may not like the response of a power amp into a power amp. It depends on how much compression you like, probably wouldn’t work for me I like a snappier response.

If the effects return is post all special sauce and really just gets amplified without anything else happening you’ll be fine. But then you’re paying for stuff you aren’t using could have probably saved money or gotten a bigger and better power amp.

D
 

108

Member
Messages
2,099
You know fully well that modeler in our current nomenclature is interpreted as a digital approach, so semantics matter. If we’re even going to have this silly discussion, only two of these channels are directly fashioned after another amplifier.

OP, the power amp effects return sounds much better for my tastes than the PS170, of which I’m not a despite it’s popularity. FWIW, I did not defeat power amp simulation in the FM3. It sounded good, I simply preferred the Amp1 preamp, but the FM3 could certainly be tweaked to more closely match. I generally lean towards Marshall tones, so using the FM3 to supplant the existing preamp didn’t seem practical, it was just an experiment.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
21,296
I guess technically you might be able to use the Amp 1 + FM3 in 4 cable method as well?
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
2,001
You know fully well that modeler in our current nomenclature is interpreted as a digital approach, so semantics matter. If we’re even going to have this silly discussion, only two of these channels are directly fashioned after another amplifier.

OP, the power amp effects return sounds much better for my tastes than the PS170, of which I’m not a despite it’s popularity. FWIW, I did not defeat power amp simulation in the FM3. It sounded good, I simply preferred the Amp1 preamp, but the FM3 could certainly be tweaked to more closely match. I generally lean towards Marshall tones, so using the FM3 to supplant the existing preamp didn’t seem practical, it was just an experiment.
No, not really. There are plenty of analog devices that model amps, that’s where this all started actually and companies still make the original ones and new ones. The amp1 is a new take on that approach, and a pretty cool one too.

D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,379
My bad, missed the effects return. I’d think you’d have better luck with a dedicated small power amp though and let your modeler do its thing. In the Helix or kemper, you can’t deactivate the power amp modeling. You may or may not like the response of a power amp into a power amp. It depends on how much compression you like, probably wouldn’t work for me I like a snappier response.

If the effects return is post all special sauce and really just gets amplified without anything else happening you’ll be fine. But then you’re paying for stuff you aren’t using could have probably saved money or gotten a bigger and better power amp.

D
I wouldn’t want to disable the power amp modeling. The Kemper can be purchased as a powered or unpowered head and all I am thinking about of is instead of buying the the powered version with its class D power amp included use the power amp of the Amp1 since it’s a flat class D power amp BUT has the nanotube which would give the benefit of the tube “feel and response” without tube coloration.

Lots of guys use their digital modeller whether it’s a Kemper or Helix into a solid state power amp to run directly into a traditional guitar cab (Power amp sim on Cab sim off). Some prefer to use devices like the Fryette PS2 for this because of the feel and response you get from a tube power amp. The drawback to using something like the PS-2 is it uses 6L6’s which do impact a bit of power amp color into the profile/model. I was thinking the Amp1 would accomplish the “tube response and feel” due to the nanotube technology but probably not impart a tube color into the profile.

Thomas Blug put the nano tube in the Amp1 only for the sole purpose of feel and response. The power amp in the Amp1 is a class D (just like the powered Kemper head) so it should be a flat power amp but with the feel of a tube amp.
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,379
You know fully well that modeler in our current nomenclature is interpreted as a digital approach, so semantics matter. If we’re even going to have this silly discussion, only two of these channels are directly fashioned after another amplifier.

OP, the power amp effects return sounds much better for my tastes than the PS170, of which I’m not a despite it’s popularity. FWIW, I did not defeat power amp simulation in the FM3. It sounded good, I simply preferred the Amp1 preamp, but the FM3 could certainly be tweaked to more closely match. I generally lean towards Marshall tones, so using the FM3 to supplant the existing preamp didn’t seem practical, it was just an experiment.
Thanks. The thing about the Amp1 that blew me away is that it actually feels and responds like a tube amp under the fingers. Totally reasonable if you preferred the Amp1 preamp for your Marshall tones but if you are playing through a traditional cab (which you would be with the Amp1) and had an FM3 and wanted to use the FM3 for a Mesa model or Diezel etc seems to me the Amp1 would excel as a power amp.

I can’t really see a drawback to using it this way. The nanotube is in there for the feel but specifically designed not to impart any tube coloration and the power amp is a flat solid state class D so not affect the power amp sim in the FM3, Kemper or Helix.

I‘ll find out soon enough how it works for me once I get another Kemper just curious about this tech in the Amp1 since it is really really good. Seems like peanut butter to jelly for use with digital applications. I may be wrong but it just seems to make sense to me.
 
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Graham G

Member
Messages
645
No, not really. There are plenty of analog devices that model amps, that’s where this all started actually and companies still make the original ones and new ones. The amp1 is a new take on that approach, and a pretty cool one too.

D
I don't have an Amp1,but i'm not sure why you are persisting with this approach,the Amp 1 is an all analogue design 3/4 channel amplifier,it's like saying the original Marshall was a "model" of a Fender.
I'm not an expert with Amplifier design,but i do know the difference between a Pod & a Bandit.
 

Hank Habanero

Member
Messages
690
The power amp is quite loud, probably comparable to say a 50 watt tube head.

It works well with modelers, but I prefer a more transparent power amp with modern modelers.
 

LaXu

Member
Messages
5,825
I've done it with the Helix. Sounds great but the Amp 1 ME poweramp will have the feel of a high power amp though. So if you run a model of a small combo into it, it won't quite feel like one but the sound will be good nonetheless.

For fun I have even tried running a tube amp through a Bluetone Loadbox line-out into the Amp 1 poweramp and again it took the tighter character of the 100W poweramp so different from just running from the loadbox/attenuator into a cab.

The poweramp is as loud as a 100W tube amp, I measured 120 dB @ 1m through a 1x12, 100 dB sensitivity Eminence Maverick. My 45W Bogner cranked all the way was 117 dB @ 1m through the same speaker. Everything in the room was rattling and it was painfully loud.
 




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