Amp1 & Helix/Fractal/Kemper users...

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
Thanks. The thing about the Amp1 that blew me away is that it actually feels and responds like a tube amp under the fingers. Totally reasonable if you preferred the Amp1 preamp for your Marshall tones but if you are playing through a traditional cab (which you would be with the Amp1) and had an FM3 and wanted to use the FM3 for a Mesa model or Diezel etc seems to me the Amp1 would excel as a power amp.

I can’t really see a drawback to using it this way. The nanotube is in there for the feel but specifically designed not to impart any tube coloration and the power amp is a flat solid state class D so not affect the power amp sim in the FM3, Kemper or Helix.

I‘ll find out soon enough how it works for me once I get another Kemper just curious about this tech in the Amp1 since it is really really good. Seems like peanut butter to jelly for use with digital applications. I may be wrong but it just seems to make sense to me.
The “feel” the nanotube is adding is compression. Your kemper is already modeling the compression of the power amp of the amp in your profile. So, you’re adding additional compression if you run it into the amp1. I expect it isn’t much, but it’s going to add some.

I don’t like the feel of an overly (IMO) compressed signal. Others love it. It’s totally personal preference.

If you’re wanting to use the modeling of the amp1 and the modeling of another unit and the power amount suits your needs, then yes it’s probably a good solution as long as it doesn’t get too compressed for you. Depending on the modeler, you could also reduce the compression in it so that they work better together.

D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
I've done it with the Helix. Sounds great but the Amp 1 ME poweramp will have the feel of a high power amp though. So if you run a model of a small combo into it, it won't quite feel like one but the sound will be good nonetheless.

For fun I have even tried running a tube amp through a Bluetone Loadbox line-out into the Amp 1 poweramp and again it took the tighter character of the 100W poweramp so different from just running from the loadbox/attenuator into a cab.

The poweramp is as loud as a 100W tube amp, I measured 120 dB @ 1m through a 1x12, 100 dB sensitivity Eminence Maverick. My 45W Bogner cranked all the way was 117 dB @ 1m through the same speaker. Everything in the room was rattling and it was painfully loud.
Yeah I’m not sure why I mentioned volume maybe being an issue at large gigs. It’s been awhile since I plugged in and forgot how loud the Amp1 is actually.

I am by no means an expert on power amps but isn’t the whole point of a solid state amp to be neutral sounding? The difference between the 600w Class D power amp in Kemper Powerhead toaster and the 100w Class D power amp in the Amp1 should be the same neutral flat tone? Both units are just using the class D amp to amplify the modeled preamp/power section. Just in this case the Amp1 is analogue and has the benefit of the nanotube technology for the feel/response. Would the Kemper Powerhead 600w class D have the same feel of a high power amp?

I decided to go with a Fractal FM3 (I ordered last night) over the Kemper so I’m looking forward to trying the FM3 out with the Amp1 and seeing what results I get.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
I don't have an Amp1,but i'm not sure why you are persisting with this approach,the Amp 1 is an all analogue design 3/4 channel amplifier,it's like saying the original Marshall was a "model" of a Fender.
I'm not an expert with Amplifier design,but i do know the difference between a Pod & a Bandit.
If they put a poweramp on a sansamp, it’s still an analog modeler. Now it just has a poweramp too. That’s what the amp1 is doing. Sorry if it hurts your feelings to call it a modeler. I’ve got other things to do, carry on...

D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
The “feel” the nanotube is adding is compression. Your kemper is already modeling the compression of the power amp of the amp in your profile. So, you’re adding additional compression if you run it into the amp1. I expect it isn’t much, but it’s going to add some.

I don’t like the feel of an overly (IMO) compressed signal. Others love it. It’s totally personal preference.

If you’re wanting to use the modeling of the amp1 and the modeling of another unit and the power amount suits your needs, then yes it’s probably a good solution as long as it doesn’t get too compressed for you. Depending on the modeler, you could also reduce the compression in it so that they work better together.

D
Thanks. The compression thing makes sense and I didn’t take that into account.

I wouldn’t be using any of the modeling of the Amp1 only it’s solid state class D power amp. In the Amp1 the “power section” of the amp being modeled is done in the Analog preamp design. The class D power amp in the unit is just there to amplify so there would be no doubling up of a modeled power amp section if used in conjunction with a Kemper profile or Fractal model with power amp sim on.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
Thanks. The compression thing makes sense and I didn’t take that into account.

I wouldn’t be using any of the modeling of the Amp1 only it’s solid state class D power amp. In the Amp1 the “power section” of the amp being modeled is done in the Analog preamp design. The class D power amp in the unit is just there to amplify so there would be no doubling up of a modeled power amp section if used in conjunction with a Kemper profile or Fractal model with power amp sim on.
I meant adding compression from the tube moreso than doubling the power amp modeling. If you find things too compressed with the fm3 into it, turn off the speaker compression first and if that’s not enough tweak advanced parameters to stiffen the power amp.

D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
I meant adding compression from the tube moreso than doubling the power amp modeling. If you find things too compressed with the fm3 into it, turn off the speaker compression first and if that’s not enough tweak advanced parameters to stiffen the power amp.

D
Good advice I will give that a go.
 

108

Member
Messages
2,071
DK, do you even own the products OP is asking about or simply blabbering on? I own or have owned everything mentioned in this thread.

If the Amp1 is a modeler, then I guess a Metro-Plex is too.

:spit
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
DK, do you even own the products OP is asking about or simply blabbering on? I own or have owned everything mentioned in this thread.

If the Amp1 is a modeler, then I guess a Metro-Plex is too.

:spit
Good for you. Looks like I hurt more than one persons feelings calling it a modeler. It’s still a modeler...

I own and use Helix. Formerly owned an FM3, which is how I was able to tell the OP what to do if he found things a little too compressed running into the effects return of the Amp1.

I also owned a sansamp for years (went looking for it last night but can’t find it). Have a few amps, used to own a lot more of them. Do I need to give you a full inventory of gear I own or used to own?

D
 

LaXu

Member
Messages
5,659
I am by no means an expert on power amps but isn’t the whole point of a solid state amp to be neutral sounding? The difference between the 600w Class D power amp in Kemper Powerhead toaster and the 100w Class D power amp in the Amp1 should be the same neutral flat tone? Both units are just using the class D amp to amplify the modeled preamp/power section. Just in this case the Amp1 is analogue and has the benefit of the nanotube technology for the feel/response. Would the Kemper Powerhead 600w class D have the same feel of a high power amp?
Depends on the goals. The poweramp on the Amp 1 is afaik some custom design rather than the ICEPower general use Class D poweramp found in things like the Kemper or Fender Tonemaster. Amp 1 is after all designed to be an amp first and foremost so how transparent the poweramp is not a desired thing on it.

I do feel it's transparent enough to run full amp models into it but still preferred the results I got from a Fryette PS2 with the same setup.
 

Graham G

Member
Messages
633
If they put a poweramp on a sansamp, it’s still an analog modeler. Now it just has a poweramp too. That’s what the amp1 is doing. Sorry if it hurts your feelings to call it a modeler. I’ve got other things to do, carry on...

D
Ok,we'll agree to differ & if you have better things to do,feel free to ignore my responses next time :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: 108

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
No need for amps when the Helix can sound like anything. Duh!
Oh, how I wish....

If you find channel 2 vintage mode of a 3 channel recto in there, or a great pitch algorithm, or a no tweaking needed awesome reverb, I’ll buy you a beer... That’s not all I wish was in there, just the first 3 that came to mind.

D
 

Ingolf

Member
Messages
774
Anyone here use your Amp1 as a power amp for your Helix/Fractal/Kemper into a traditional guitar cab? If so what did you think?

It seems to make a lot of sense to me given the nano tube technology in the amp1 is designed just to get the sound and feel of a tube amp but curious what your results were. I would think this would be an optimal choice given the "nanotube" isn't imparting a specific tube "color" into the tone just feel where as something like the PS2 or a FX return of a traditional amp would impart tube color to some extent.

I got an Amp1 here and thinking about getting a Kemper again and the only drawback I can think of is the Amp1 is only 100w and while loud may not be enough power at bigger gigs for some folks.
When I still had my Amp1 ME I did exactly this (only for comparison): plug in my Profiler into the FX return of the Amp1.
Compared to the Profiler’s own poweramp (Which is very neutral) I found the Amp1 poweramp coloured the signal quite a bit (adding high mids and treble).
It sounded great after I compensated this with the Kemper's output EQ.
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
Depends on the goals. The poweramp on the Amp 1 is afaik some custom design rather than the ICEPower general use Class D poweramp found in things like the Kemper or Fender Tonemaster. Amp 1 is after all designed to be an amp first and foremost so how transparent the poweramp is not a desired thing on it.

I do feel it's transparent enough to run full amp models into it but still preferred the results I got from a Fryette PS2 with the same setup.
When I still had my Amp1 ME I did exactly this (only for comparison): plug in my Profiler into the FX return of the Amp1.
Compared to the Profiler’s own poweramp (Which is very neutral) I found the Amp1 poweramp coloured the signal quite a bit (adding high mids and treble).
It sounded great after I compensated this with the Kemper's output EQ.

Thanks for the input fellas. I guess I will try the Amp1 with the FM3 and see what I think but seems that both of you feel that while it may work it is not ideal. Interesting that the Fryette PS2 would be more neutral given there are 2 big 6L6's in there vs the little nanotube in the Amp1. I guess there are more tonal variations in a class D power amp than I assumed.

I've had a Kemper, Fractal, Helix etc before and always used them with FRFR which I still will with the FM3 through my LSR305 monitors but I really want to approach going digital a bit different this time. I never tried them before using a separate power amp into a regular cab.

Do you think the PS2 or maybe even the PS100 (Kt88's) is the best route to go then for this setup?

I like the idea of tubes for the feel aspect as long as it is flat enough to not throw everything out of whack and having to tweak it every time.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
1,937
Thanks for the input fellas. I guess I will try the Amp1 with the FM3 and see what I think but seems that both of you feel that while it may work it is not ideal. Interesting that the Fryette PS2 would be more neutral given there are 2 big 6L6's in there vs the little nanotube in the Amp1. I guess there are more tonal variations in a class D power amp than I assumed.

I've had a Kemper, Fractal, Helix etc before and always used them with FRFR which I still will with the FM3 through my LSR305 monitors but I really want to approach going digital a bit different this time. I never tried them before using a separate power amp into a regular cab.

Do you think the PS2 or maybe even the PS100 (Kt88's) is the best route to go then for this setup?

I like the idea of tubes for the feel aspect as long as it is flat enough to not throw everything out of whack and having to tweak it every time.
The power tubes themselves change the eq/tonality of the sound far less than what most people might think. They do some tone shaping, but it’s very subtle especially if the power amp was designed with this kind of use in mind.
D
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
The power tubes themselves change the eq/tonality of the sound far less than what most people might think. They do some tone shaping, but it’s very subtle especially if the power amp was designed with this kind of use in mind.
D
Cool. I had a PS2 for awhile and used it with my tube amps and I thought it was great as a reactive attenuator. I did notice when used as an attenuator with a traditional amp that it did **slightly** change the feel to maybe a bit stiffer feeling. Of course this would be (or should be) completely different when using it with a modeller. Actually imparting a bit of feel into the digital realm. I stupidly sold my PS2 like a idiot. It's like throwing out your Swiss Army knife from your camping backpack. Not sure what I was thinking at the time. Sure would come in handy about now ha.
 

jeremyjh

Member
Messages
353
Interesting that the Fryette PS2 would be more neutral given there are 2 big 6L6's in there vs the little nanotube in the Amp1. I guess there are more tonal variations in a class D power amp than I assumed.
Power amp design matters more than the kind of tubes. The PS2 is designed to be neutral, and the Amp1 isn't.
 

Matteo11

Member
Messages
2,377
Power amp design matters more than the kind of tubes. The PS2 is designed to be neutral, and the Amp1 isn't.
I guess I was mistaken about the Amp1. Before I purchased it I watched a ton of Thomas Blug interviews demos etc and I could have sworn he said the Class D amp was neutral and only used for amplification purposes and the nanotube was there for the feel/response.

Oh well. I'll still try it out for sh*ts and giggles but I am thinking a PS2 is back in my future. Those things are good to have around anyways.
 




Trending Topics

Top