Amps with headroom and bandwidth

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by cerebralpaul, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. Jul 29, 2005 #1
    cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    Basically I love the tone of my '66 Super Reverb with the bright switch up and volume set between 3.5 and 4.5- below that it's "tinkly" sounding, and anywhere above that it compresses losing bass and high treble. I plan on spending some quality time with the amp for the next few weeks, right now I use 2x12 Weber Cali speakers(like JBLs) and I plan on trying out Weber Michigans(like EVs), which should give me some more volume, plus some bottom end so I can back off the bass tone stack a bit more and increase headroom that way as well. Also trying a ss rectifier, and biasing the amp a tad cooler should help, as well as running a 5751 in the first preamp position. I'm sure all of these little details will add up and hopefully open a wider usable volume range for me, but for future reference I'm interested in amps that feature higher headroom and wider bandwidth-

    Two rock CR: I read a lot of comments about the clean channel on these sounding like a blackface amp so I'm inclined to skip them, I might as well use a BF Dual Showman maybe?

    Fender Dual Showman: maybe a slight improvement over what i'm using now

    Marshall Super Bass: I've heard they have great cleans, the concept of using a bass amp for wider bandwidth makes a lot of sense to me

    Hiwatt: since these were designed for guitar or bass it should be similar to the Super Bass but the Hiwatt power stage seems like it may break up slower?

    Any thoughts, negative or positive, on this whole line of reasoning is much appreciated as well as any info on amps that I haven't mentioned.
     
    cerebralpaul, Jul 29, 2005
    cerebralpaul, Jul 29, 2005
    #1
  2. Jul 29, 2005 #2
    hogy

    hogy Supporting Member

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    If you like the sound of your Super and want it in XXL, you should look into getting a silverface Quad Reverb. It's essentially a Twin Reverb with four twelves.
    You can have work done to it (blackface it, etc.) if you feel the need, but either way it's a monster.

    I did disengage the master volume in mine and massage the circuit a bit. Changed the speakers to 4 16 Ohm Emminence Swamp Things. It's one of the amps I'll always keep.
    It has the concussive attack of a kick drum on every note.

    Another option is a Super Six, same amp with six tens instead of four twelves.

    Hogy
     
    hogy, Jul 29, 2005
    hogy, Jul 29, 2005
    #2
  3. Jul 29, 2005 #3
    cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    That sounds like a monster amp Hogy! Would that be pretty much like a Dual Showman Reverb with a 4x12? Do you lose a lot of bottom end when using the bright switch with that amp? I'm sure those Swamp Thangs put some back in though. While we're on the subject what are the tonal differences between blackface and silverface? I know a lot of people "blackface" their SF amps, but maybe I wouldn't want to? Well one thing I know is that I wouldn't want a master volume.
     
    cerebralpaul, Jul 29, 2005
    cerebralpaul, Jul 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Jul 30, 2005 #4
    cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    Should I change the name of this thread? Maybe put "Dumble!" in the title? ;) I know a lot of guys are looking for breakup at lower volumes, but there have to be some "big clean" players around... another amp that just caught my attention- Germino Headroom 100 Bass- anyone try one?
     
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    #4
  5. Jul 30, 2005 #5
    Deaj

    Deaj Silver Supporting Member

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    Fuchs ODS 100 maybe?
     
    Deaj, Jul 30, 2005
    Deaj, Jul 30, 2005
    #5
  6. Jul 30, 2005 #6
    cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    Yeah I've been looking into those, the general impression I get is that the clean on the Fuchs and TwoRock amps is akin to a BF Fender, and maybe even not quite there- so is it worth it if I'm just going to use the clean channel? Also, I keep the bright switch up on my Fender and I prefer warm clean speakers while other players use the bright switch off, push the amp into breakup, and use brighter speakers, so I'm not always sure if people mean the same thing I do when they say something sounds like a BF Fender. If I'm mistaken then I guess thats why I started this thread, to get some feedback. Does a ODS100 or a CR have the same amount of headroom as a SF Dual Showman? On the other hand, something like a Steel String Singer would probably be right up my alley, but those are kind of in short supply ;)
     
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    #6
  7. Jul 30, 2005 #7
    drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Ampeg V4-heavy as sin, but a great clean sound (something like 130w before it starts to break up) and a little different flavor than the Fender.

    Other thoughts-a rack system with a Mesa 100/100 and a clean preamp or a GT Dual 75 with KT88s. A Roland JC120. A Sound City PA200 (200+ watts from 4 KT88s) or Sunn 2000s or something similar.
     
    drbob1, Jul 30, 2005
    drbob1, Jul 30, 2005
    #7
  8. Jul 30, 2005 #8
    cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    Now you're talking :cool:

    Is the Ampeg v4 like a Marshall plexi? One of my friends talks about those all the time as his favorite amp he ever owned... if it is, then it would be in the same category as the Super Bass and Hiwatt I listed- and by different flavor you mean EQ right? I'd love to hear from anyone that can compare these kind of amps EQ-wise. This is now the "big amp" thread! :dude
     
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    cerebralpaul, Jul 30, 2005
    #8
  9. Jul 30, 2005 #9
    Jimetti

    Jimetti Member

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    Call Ben Fargen or Tony Bruno and get it over with...

    Mark.
     
    Jimetti, Jul 30, 2005
    Jimetti, Jul 30, 2005
    #9
  10. Jul 31, 2005 #10
    drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    No, the Ampeg is its own thing. I believe the Stones used these a lot. Anyway, they have more midrange than a Fender, but a LOT more overhead before they break up than most Marshalls. Seems to me the EQ might be active as well (can increase gain as well as cut it).
     
    drbob1, Jul 31, 2005
    drbob1, Jul 31, 2005
    #10
  11. Aug 2, 2005 #11
    guidedbyechoes

    guidedbyechoes Member

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    I think your eardrums will break up before the clean on an ampeg does, they were built to stay clean.
     
    guidedbyechoes, Aug 2, 2005
    guidedbyechoes, Aug 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Aug 2, 2005 #12
    malabarmusic

    malabarmusic Member

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    I suggest that you not make any decisions until you play a Hiwatt DR-103, either a Hylight-era original in fine working order or one of the new Music Ground reissues (or a Reeves, which is the same amp with a different badge). "Headroom and bandwith" is its middle name. :) Rather than put work into making your SR something it's not, I'd suggest going with something that is designed from the ground up to be exactly what you describe.

    The Super Bass does have good cleans (I owned a '73 at the same time as a couple of Hiwatts), but I don't consider it in the same ballpark as the Hiwatt. The Hiwatt's tone stack is *way* different and as a result the amp has a very different tonality from a Marshall.

    Contrary to many popular reports, Hiwatts do break up, and in glorious fashion. [I'm on my fourth, and they've all rocked.] If you need higher gain than the amp can produce on its own, you'll find that there's no better platform for drive pedals. There's a deceptive amount of gain/volume/EQ flexibility available from juggling pedal distortion, pedal output, bright/normal volumes, and the master volume. BTW, Hiwatts were designed with a 12AT7 in the PI slot, though many older ones show up with 12AX7s. These work fine, but obviously cut down on high volume headroom.

    - DB
     
    malabarmusic, Aug 2, 2005
    malabarmusic, Aug 2, 2005
    #12
  13. Aug 3, 2005 #13
    fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Supporting Member

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    Dude where are you playing that a SR doesn't have enough headroom?:eek: I personally hate tube rectifiers for their compression artifacts (the "sag" that so many other players seem to adore). A SS recto, 5751 and more efficient speakers should go a long way to improving bass response, headroom and overall volume. Also try 7581(a) power tubes. These are 6l6 style tubes with more output for the most headroom and volume possible. A larger output tranny would also extend frequency response especially in the bass but I don't recommend it for a vintage amp like yours.
     
    fr8_trane, Aug 3, 2005
    fr8_trane, Aug 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Aug 4, 2005 #14
    JBPlanck

    JBPlanck Member

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    Check out the clean "fender" channel on an orignal 2 channel Rivera Knucklehead 100 (KH100). Way huge headroom.
     
    JBPlanck, Aug 4, 2005
    JBPlanck, Aug 4, 2005
    #14

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