hehe (a) that's rubbish. most high gainers have several channels, some with fewer gain stages, some with more. If anything you can get a far larger range of tones out of them. what's a more versatile amp- a mesa roadking or a fender champ? now, the fender champ will doubtless do teh fender champ thing better than teh roadking will, but the roadking will make a stab at the fender champ thing while the champ won't be able to get to places where teh roadking will. (b) now you're just being intellectually dishonest. I said in black and white that I agreed that majority rule meant very little. Also, I never said a deluxe wasn't versatile. Or sounded bad. I'd be the first to agree that most of those vintage amps sound awesome. you're the one who's claiming vast numbers of classic (they're classic now, face facts) amps sound terrible. Not me. Stop trying to muddy the waters to discredit me by trying to make it look like i'm just as close-minded as you- i'm not, and i don't appreciate it. i have no problem with vintage-style amps. they're great. so are modern high gainers. but there are two different types of versatile- 1) can it be used for different styles of music? and 2) can it be used for completely different types of tones? a deluxe certainly passes for teh first type of versatility, but i'm not sure it passes for the second- at least compared to the kind of multi channel amps we have now, where you have a fendery clean channel, a marshall od channel and then a more modern distortion channel. I also completely disagree that a high gain amp is the same as a stompbox. There's a reason why your average high gainer is $1000+ and your average stompbox is $100 (well... it is if you ignore TGP!). And it's not esoteric unobtanium components TGP reasons, either. +1 i'd say that falls under user error, then. I can clean up my high gainers pretty well just by playing more lightly. No, it's not clean (or anywhere close), but it's noticeably less distorted and sounds different. also, it's an unfair comparison. dial in a lower gain tone with those high gainers and they're just as responsive (or almost as responsive) as vintage type amps. dial in the same amount of preamp dirt on a champ (if you could... or say with a pedal) and it won't clean up any better than a high gainer set to brootalz will. It's not really the amp design so much as how the thing's dialled in. Just because a champ won't let you set it to teh idiot setting doesn't necessarily mean it's a better amp. it just means you have to not be an idiot when using a high gainer. (Just to clarify... i'm not saying it's nothing to do with the design. those high gainers tend to have a stiffer power supply etc. so the whole thing doesn't fall apart under masses of preamp distortion. I just think it's unfair to claim a high gainer isn't responsive when you dial in an idiot setting with maximum gain and then claim a vintage amp is more responsive when, by comparison, you've dialled in a light crunch.) Plus I mean for some things you want that absolutely roaring supersaturated type of tone. Maybe you think it sounds terrible. that's fair enough. I veer more towards 80s hot-rodded marshall tones than modern brootz, i'm no 5150 or recto posterboy. But that doesn't mean they're useless, or worse amps, or whatever. It just means you don't like them. And claiming there's no point in them says more about you than it does about me.